Dark Side of the Moon

Type Moon => Translations => Topic started by: Jacktheinfinite101 on July 14, 2014, 03:39:30 PM

Title: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Jacktheinfinite101 on July 14, 2014, 03:39:30 PM
Greetings DSM, I bring a gift.  The full release of the RN project:

Fate Stay Night Realta Nua English Full Release (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0rMA6piiUE#ws)

http://www.mediafire.com/download/ygpumuc7t4ib1ug/Fate+Stay+Night+Realta+Nua+English.rar (http://www.mediafire.com/download/ygpumuc7t4ib1ug/Fate+Stay+Night+Realta+Nua+English.rar)

For those who want Koto's version: http://realtapatch.tumblr.com/ (http://realtapatch.tumblr.com/)

Credits:

Project leads: Jacktheinfinite101, Waku Waku, Koto.

Jacktheinfinite101: Lead editor, programming, some image editing.

Koto: Lead translator, text editing, some image editing.

Waku Waku: Lead image editor, programming consultant, PS2 resources.

Quibi: Lead programmer.

Hyarion: Initial translation of Fate H alts.

MeruP: Programming.

Dallas Hickan: Additional image editing.

Taka-jun, ArchDemon, Tjm, and puKKa from Mirror Moon: Original translation.

bishopcruz and Annonymous: First H uncensor patch.

Himeros and Belldandy100: Second H uncensor patch.

Special thanks to Terrafire for full text comparison
files between FSN and RN for every single scene.

Originally created by Kinoko Nasu and Type Moon.

Special thanks to any other BL members who helped out.


If you find any mistakes do not hesitate to post them.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Cherry Lover on July 14, 2014, 05:00:23 PM
What's the difference between your version and Koto's version?
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Alice on July 14, 2014, 05:04:14 PM
It's in the FAQ on the tumblr page for Koto's patch. Koto's patch is the non-h one, while Jack's (the first link below the video) is the H version.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Cherry Lover on July 14, 2014, 05:06:29 PM
Eh, I thought they had some sort of option to switch between the H and non-H version. Also, what does "non-H" mean? There's a bunch of non-H stuff that has been terribly censored in the RN version of HF, and I don't want that aside from to laugh at the stupidity of it.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Jacktheinfinite101 on July 14, 2014, 05:26:51 PM
Eh, I thought they had some sort of option to switch between the H and non-H version. Also, what does "non-H" mean? There's a bunch of non-H stuff that has been terribly censored in the RN version of HF, and I don't want that aside from to laugh at the stupidity of it.

Ok it goes like this.  We inserted the MM TL into RN, then someone gave us full comparisons of the Japanese text between FSN and RN.  Koto got around to applying those text changes to the patch, but there's a lot of stuff I figured people wouldn't want to see changed or taken out, especially since a lot of it is just censoring down violence like replacing uses of the word blood with "something red".  Since a lot of people think of RN as FSN with new additional features, I didn't want them to feel like they were being downgraded by going from the 4.2 RN patch for 2004 FSN to this, since in a way this was originally, before the RN changes were translated, just a more efficient version of the RN patch for the orignal where we put the FSN text into RN instead of putting RN effects into FSN.  That said we also wanted to have a patch that was just a straight up translation of RN and nothing else since it's not, on an ethical level, right of us to put out a heavily altered version and not have the unaltered version available.

So the short version of that is: Koto's is just pure RN 100% while mine is a mix between FSN and RN text.  Basically some RN changes are in mine, like removal of certain lines like "Tohsaka says this" because the voices make them pointless, and the removal of things that are almost universally disliked like some of Shirou's more infamous sexist comments in Fate, but if there was something it contributed to the story, other lines were left in.  Such as the bit in Fate where Saber wipes Illya's cheek and comments on how beautiful her hair is, Shirou has a bit of narration that was cut that kinda references Saber's friendship with Irisiviel so that was left in since it contributes more to the experience.

Now about things pertaining to Sakura's abuse since I know that' what you care about most.  Sakura's actual abuse is made more vague, and her relationship with Shinji was totally re-written, so what I did was use if statements so that if you turn the H patch on, you can view the 2004 version and with the H patch off you will see the new RN version, letting the readers choose what they prefer basically.  So if you want to read the Sakura abuse stuff the way you remember it then keep the H scenes turned on basically.

Holy shit two posts in on DSM an already a textwall, I'm trying too hard.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Cherry Lover on July 14, 2014, 05:29:23 PM
I thought you said you were doing a thing with the H scenes removed but with the rest of the RN censorship removed. Some people might want to remove the H scenes, that doesn't mean they want Sakura's character totally mangled by shitty censorship....

Using the description "H-free version" for the full RN thing is misleading, and will con people into reading the shitty censored version that totally fucks up Sakura's backstory and characterisation, and they have no way of even knowing that there is a better version there.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Alice on July 14, 2014, 05:37:33 PM
That's what he did. Jack's version has an h/non h toggle, and his non-h version is a mix between F/SN vanilla and RN. The H version, if I'm reading that right, is pretty much F/SN as you remember it. Koto's is the pure RN version.  That make it clearer for you?
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Kat on July 14, 2014, 05:46:38 PM
>Granting Sakura more dignity

>Shitty censorship

Are you really Sakura's fan or derive enjoyment from her suffering and you are complaining about her suffering given more dignity?
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Cherry Lover on July 14, 2014, 05:49:21 PM
That's what he did. Jack's version has an h/non h toggle, and his non-h version is a mix between F/SN vanilla and RN. The H version, if I'm reading that right, is pretty much F/SN as you remember it. Koto's is the pure RN version.  That make it clearer for you?

Yeah, that's clear, I just wish the announcement would say so, so people don't pick the inferior censored version by default.

>Granting Sakura more dignity

>Shitty censorship

Are you really Sakura's fan or derive enjoyment from her suffering and you are complaining about her suffering given more dignity?

In what sense does it give her "more dignity". It's still fucking obvious she is being raped, Zero outright states as much. The only difference is that a bunch of stuff is changed in a totally non-sensical manner, such as Sakura responding to Shinji beating her up despite having never done so before. It's just fucking stupid and makes no damn sense given her character.

And, Jack showed me some of the changes before, and the censorship in HF is just plain lazy at times. It's not like they've altered things to make more sense, they've just cut out any reference to sex and then glued together whatever is left with the minimum possible amount of effort. Hell, they didn't even bother to change the CG in the Shinji death scene to make Sakura be fully dressed (even though there is no reason she would not be given the lack of rape).
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: SINIB on July 14, 2014, 05:52:13 PM
I thought you said you were doing a thing with the H scenes removed but with the rest of the RN censorship removed. Some people might want to remove the H scenes, that doesn't mean they want Sakura's character totally mangled by shitty censorship....

Using the description "H-free version" for the full RN thing is misleading, and will con people into reading the shitty censored version that totally fucks up Sakura's backstory and characterisation, and they have no way of even knowing that there is a better version there.
We need a switch, pronto!
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Kat on July 14, 2014, 05:55:25 PM
Quote
In what sense does it give her "more dignity". It's still fucking obvious she is being raped, Zero outright states as much.

Realta Nua is more canon than Zero.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Alice on July 14, 2014, 05:56:34 PM
Mike, again, there's a switch on Jack's patch. The explanation's in the video. If you wanted him to expand on it in his OP, you could have just asked him nicely to do so.

Also, preemptive admin stuff, play nice people. I'm already sensing some hostility in here.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Koto on July 14, 2014, 05:58:19 PM
I thought you said you were doing a thing with the H scenes removed but with the rest of the RN censorship removed. Some people might want to remove the H scenes, that doesn't mean they want Sakura's character totally mangled by shitty censorship....

Using the description "H-free version" for the full RN thing is misleading, and will con people into reading the shitty censored version that totally fucks up Sakura's backstory and characterisation, and they have no way of even knowing that there is a better version there.
Love you too, Mike!
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Jacktheinfinite101 on July 14, 2014, 06:02:00 PM
Nice to see this went over so well from the start :/
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Cherry Lover on July 14, 2014, 06:07:44 PM
Quote
In what sense does it give her "more dignity". It's still fucking obvious she is being raped, Zero outright states as much.

Realta Nua is more canon than Zero.

No, it's not. Plus, RN doesn't say "Sakura was not raped", it merely carefully avoids saying she was.

Mike, again, there's a switch on Jack's patch. The explanation's in the video. If you wanted him to expand on it in his OP, you could have just asked him nicely to do so.

Yes, I'm aware there is a switch in the patch, but it's not so well explained in the OP, and I really don't like the RN censorship of HF.

I thought you said you were doing a thing with the H scenes removed but with the rest of the RN censorship removed. Some people might want to remove the H scenes, that doesn't mean they want Sakura's character totally mangled by shitty censorship....

Using the description "H-free version" for the full RN thing is misleading, and will con people into reading the shitty censored version that totally fucks up Sakura's backstory and characterisation, and they have no way of even knowing that there is a better version there.
Love you too, Mike!

It's not your fault, you didn't write it....
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Kat on July 14, 2014, 06:08:13 PM
Mike, worms are not genuine rape, you know.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: I3uster on July 14, 2014, 06:11:27 PM
Nice to see this went over so well from the start :/

Don't complain about getting mangled by the lion when you walk into his den wearing a suit of meat lathered in BBQ sauce.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Kat on July 14, 2014, 06:14:02 PM
Jack is kinda blamed for every perceived flaw in the latest patch :p.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Cherry Lover on July 14, 2014, 06:15:02 PM
Mike, worms are not genuine rape, you know.

I really don't think it matters, the effect on her is the same. Plus, what Shinji does to her is simply never mentioned, there's no real reason to assume he hasn't raped her before.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Jacktheinfinite101 on July 14, 2014, 06:16:02 PM
Quote
In what sense does it give her "more dignity". It's still fucking obvious she is being raped, Zero outright states as much.

Realta Nua is more canon than Zero.

No, it's not. Plus, RN doesn't say "Sakura was not raped", it merely carefully avoids saying she was.


That's what RN does too.  I've loled out some bad censorship, but the way they treat Sakura's abuse, save for Shinji, is the same way Zero does.  Compared to their violence censorship or their lazy coverups to H scene references it's actually not nearly as bad.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Kat on July 14, 2014, 06:21:02 PM
If there is no mention of Shinji rape in RN, there is no Shinji rape in RN. Otherwise, it's assuming things.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Jacktheinfinite101 on July 14, 2014, 06:23:32 PM
If there is no mention of Shinji rape in RN, there is no Shinji rape in RN. Otherwise, it's assuming things.

I'm not talking about Shinji rape, I'm talking about the worm rape.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Cherry Lover on July 14, 2014, 06:25:59 PM
Quote
In what sense does it give her "more dignity". It's still fucking obvious she is being raped, Zero outright states as much.

Realta Nua is more canon than Zero.

No, it's not. Plus, RN doesn't say "Sakura was not raped", it merely carefully avoids saying she was.


That's what RN does too.  I've loled out some bad censorship, but the way they treat Sakura's abuse, save for Shinji, is the same way Zero does.  Compared to their violence censorship or their lazy coverups to H scene references it's actually not nearly as bad.

Well, just carefully avoiding any mention of rape is not so bad, although it's just a bit silly and makes the story less clear. But, the stuff with Shinji is just terrible, and the censorship is general is just lazy. Aside from wanting a laugh or curiosity, I genuinely cannot see why anyone would want to read the full RN version.

If there is no mention of Shinji rape in RN, there is no Shinji rape in RN. Otherwise, it's assuming things.

That only makes sense if you assume RN is a significant AU from the original FSN, though. If you assume the two have the same backstory (which seems sensible given that Sakura turns out the same way), then the rape obviously happens in both.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Alice on July 14, 2014, 06:32:10 PM
People, what did I say about playing nice? This is enough of a mess to clean up without the additional garbage. Behave now, or I'm going to start handing out warnings.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Cherry Lover on July 14, 2014, 07:32:05 PM
Hmm, OK, so it seems like I was getting confused again. With the H-scenes disabled, Jack's version also uses the RN version of all of the sexual scenes, so the stupid "Shinji beats up Sakura and she reacts for some reason in total contradiction to how she has behaved for the previous two years" thing is in there. If you want a sensible, well-written version of HF that makes sense, you need to enable the H-scenes. Just a warning for anyone new who is thinking of trying it, if you turn the H-scenes off you also ruin the story with lazy censorship of anything involving sex.

By the way, to explain, my issue with the Shinji death scene censorship is this. Sakura doesn't kill Shinji to protect herself, her mindset is too broken for that. She kills Shinji because he threatens to tell Shirou he's been raping her, and she realises that Shirou's reaction will likely be to kill Shinji. That works because being raped can (unfortunately) have negative connotations for the victim, and Sakura's mindset is such that she actually sees it as "her fault" in some way (that is shown multiple times previously in the route). Conversely, "Shinji has been beating me up for 4 years" does not have the same negative connotations, and thus Shinji threatening to tell Shirou that makes him just come across as suicidal, as opposed to a misogynistic idiot who doesn't appreciate that even Shirou's willingness to look for the good side in people has limits. So, there is no in-character reason why she would actually fight back, particularly since she went to the Matou house with the expectation of dying.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Koto on July 15, 2014, 02:35:38 PM
Mike, if you'd actually played it you'd know that Shinji threatening to "tell Shirou" doesn't even happen in the RN version (either in that scene or the earlier ones). You're criticizing something you haven't actually looked at (I remember you making this same criticism of this scene before either of us even had access to RN).

Personally I think the RN version of HF is a lot less awkward/tasteless so I'd recommend the non-H version! but what do I know, people have different tastes
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Jacktheinfinite101 on July 15, 2014, 02:48:49 PM
Mike, if you'd actually played it you'd know that Shinji threatening to "tell Shirou" doesn't even happen in the RN version (either in that scene or the earlier ones). You're criticizing something you haven't actually looked at (I remember you making this same criticism of this scene before either of us even had access to RN).

Personally I think the RN version of HF is a lot less awkward/tasteless so I'd recommend the non-H version! but what do I know, people have different tastes

This is why I decided I should provide access to both versions in my patch.  Personally I'm not too big a fan of how either one is handled but I think the original is legions better than the RN version, but like you said, different tastes.  I recommend that people read both versions and decide for themselves.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Koto on July 15, 2014, 03:10:12 PM
Also looking at both versions, I'd disagree with Mike's assessment of Sakura's motivations in that scene. She wasn't thinking "well I have to kill my brother or Senpai will kill him and get sad". What happened was she gave up resisting and started thinking about how nobody would let her have her happiness and how she cursed the world for "hating her so much", and she finally just thinks "fuck it, I wish he wasn't here". THEN the shadow kicks in. This is the same in both versions.

So really she had no concrete motive in either version, it was just her going "this sucks, FML" and her shadow taking over from there. You can't even really call it intentional.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Cherry Lover on July 15, 2014, 04:13:42 PM
Mike, if you'd actually played it you'd know that Shinji threatening to "tell Shirou" doesn't even happen in the RN version (either in that scene or the earlier ones). You're criticizing something you haven't actually looked at (I remember you making this same criticism of this scene before either of us even had access to RN).

Sure, but that still doesn't make sense. Sakura kills Shinji in the original to protect Shirou, whereas in that version she has no such reason, and self-defence is not a reason she's ever invoked before (despite plenty of opportunity). Plus, Jack showed me some of it before, and it is legitimately just really lazy and badly-written. Even if the concept could maybe have worked, they quite clearly didn't give a fuck.

Quote
Personally I think the RN version of HF is a lot less awkward/tasteless so I'd recommend the non-H version! but what do I know, people have different tastes

I think it doesn't fit with Sakura's characterisation, honestly.

Also looking at both versions, I'd disagree with Mike's assessment of Sakura's motivations in that scene. She wasn't thinking "well I have to kill my brother or Senpai will kill him and get sad". What happened was she gave up resisting and started thinking about how nobody would let her have her happiness and how she cursed the world for "hating her so much", and she finally just thinks "fuck it, I wish he wasn't here". THEN the shadow kicks in. This is the same in both versions.

So really she had no concrete motive in either version, it was just her going "this sucks, FML" and her shadow taking over from there. You can't even really call it intentional.

In the original, she thinks "I wish he wasn't here" because she knows he'll tell Shirou, and Shirou will end up breaking even more as a result. It's much more Shirou-centric.

Mike, if you'd actually played it you'd know that Shinji threatening to "tell Shirou" doesn't even happen in the RN version (either in that scene or the earlier ones). You're criticizing something you haven't actually looked at (I remember you making this same criticism of this scene before either of us even had access to RN).

Personally I think the RN version of HF is a lot less awkward/tasteless so I'd recommend the non-H version! but what do I know, people have different tastes

This is why I decided I should provide access to both versions in my patch.  Personally I'm not too big a fan of how either one is handled but I think the original is legions better than the RN version, but like you said, different tastes.  I recommend that people read both versions and decide for themselves.

I just feel that, if you're going to remove the dumb censorship, you should just remove all of the dumb censorship, rather than arbitrarily removing half and keeping the other half. Honestly, I'd rather have just had a straight choice between your version and Koto's one (without having to piss around swapping around patch files), rather than some bastardised halfway house that includes all the important censorship anyway. If I'm going to read the censored version, I might as well read a version that has all of the censorship.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Koto on July 15, 2014, 05:29:22 PM
In the original, she thinks "I wish he wasn't here" because she knows he'll tell Shirou, and Shirou will end up breaking even more as a result. It's much more Shirou-centric.
See, I don't think that's the reason though. "Oh no, Senpai!" was the reason she was actively struggling at first, but the trigger for the shadow was rather the darker "nobody ever lets me be happy, I hate the whole world" thought train that came after she gave up.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Cherry Lover on July 15, 2014, 05:37:20 PM
In the original, she thinks "I wish he wasn't here" because she knows he'll tell Shirou, and Shirou will end up breaking even more as a result. It's much more Shirou-centric.
See, I don't think that's the reason though. "Oh no, Senpai!" was the reason she was actively struggling at first, but the trigger for the shadow was rather the darker "nobody ever lets me be happy, I hate the whole world" thought train that came after she gave up.

No, what triggered her to give up and let him rape her was the threat of telling Shirou. But, the way he was acting made it clear that he would tell Shirou anyway, and at that point she just snapped and killed him.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Alice on July 15, 2014, 08:10:58 PM
Really, is Sakura having the motivation Koto stated so bad? Honestly, for all the crap she's been through it's a rather understandable and human emotion to have. Certainly after you've been through enough shit it's rather easy to feel that way. And then regret any bad things that result from it later. Whether it be just being real grouchy to people as a result, or in this case...

Plus it's not like Shirou wasn't a motive period. It's possible to have multiple motivations after all. I'm just saying that it's a perfectly human reaction to have under her circumstances. No one's perfect, after all.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Cherry Lover on July 15, 2014, 08:37:32 PM
Really, is Sakura having the motivation Koto stated so bad? Honestly, for all the crap she's been through it's a rather understandable and human emotion to have. Certainly after you've been through enough shit it's rather easy to feel that way. And then regret any bad things that result from it later. Whether it be just being real grouchy to people as a result, or in this case...

Plus it's not like Shirou wasn't a motive period. It's possible to have multiple motivations after all. I'm just saying that it's a perfectly human reaction to have under her circumstances. No one's perfect, after all.

Well, it's a more negative emotion than the original one, even if somewhat justified. I don't think killing Shinji in that situation is remotely unreasonable, but I do think that it's somewhat OOC for Sakura to do so based on what we see of her previously.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Jacktheinfinite101 on July 16, 2014, 01:11:18 AM
@Mike see that's not how I see it.  My version HAS all of the the original uncensored text.  Yes you need an additional patch for some of it but I reccomend using all the patches anyway and not just the main English patches (well right now I have to fix the Vita OP patch).  And it's not that I'm being arbitrary here.  You could say that for some other RN text changes that I left in like the removal of some of Shirou's sexist lines (since nobody will miss them), here it isn't a case of me being arbitrary, it's a case of me recognizing that the Shinji/Sakura relationship is so different compared to other censorship that it should be classified as different scenes, and therefore, both versions should be accessible to readers.  My patch is supposed to be the most complete experience possible with all of the scenes accessible, both H and H alt.  Now it is true that the H patch is not the best place to put it, but that is a limitation of not having any room for more switches than the ones we already added.  In the follow up project I plan to do where we merge the routes, I'll have Quibi make a separate menu for all the switches we add so we can fit more, but for now, we're confined to the two we have.  So to clarify since you made some hypocritical accusations to me on Skype: I am not biased (at least not as far as this patch is concerned) against Sakura or anyone else, nor am I doing an ykind of intentional sabotage.  I have the interests of all the fans in mind when I make this, you included.  I can make adjustments and changes so please try to be more reasonable and don't go fucking crazy on me like you did the other day because I feel less encouraged to accommodate you when you act like that.

So here's what I can do, right now I'm focused on fixing the broken content in my patch, but after that I will consider these options: 1. adding a notice into the readme that the H patch also contains an alternate take on the Shinji Sakura relationship and 2, switching the flags for Shinji/Sakura scnes over to the uncensor option used for H depixilzation rather than the H scenes themselves.  That way you can keep H scenes turned off through the whole game, but leave uncensoring on and have the original 2004 Shinji Sakura relationship.  Will that help?
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Cherry Lover on July 16, 2014, 01:24:24 AM
Well, yeah, I did over-react the other day. I was just somewhat irritated about the nature of the non-H option, and the fact that you'd placed the censored Shinji/Sakura scene under that. It didn't help that I got confused about what exactly you had and had not included in that option. Sorry about that, the accusations I made were rather unfair.

However, I do genuinely think that I'd like to see the full RN version more than a version that cuts out some of the stupidity from the RN edit but not all of it, although I guess that's just a personal thing. Also, it wasn't just the Shinji/Sakura scene that you left in, right? I presume you also left in the other censorship (the removal of the mentions of rape etc.).

Anyway, as for what you said, the first one definitely makes sense. The second one I'm unsure what you mean exactly. Do you mean that, if someone plays through the version of the game with the H-scenes and turns decensorship off, they'll get the RN version of the Shinji/Sakura scene? Or would it only apply if they had the H-scenes turned off as well? If it's the second, then that definitely would work (although it should probably be explained in the readme). If you mean the first, then it could possibly work, but it would really need to be well-explained (particularly since IIRC the H-scenes assume things that are censored from the original RN).
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Jacktheinfinite101 on July 16, 2014, 01:41:36 AM
Well it's kind of a difficult place to be in because of how RN has been treated.  The ideal way for it to work would have been for FSN to have been TL'ed, RN TL'ed, and then someone to have come in and made some kind of fusion patch, but the order was mixed around.  MM first added the voices to FSN, then Waku Waku added some but not all of the new effects and scenes from RN, so RN turned into something you patched into FSN because of this.  The project started out with Waku Waku putting the MM text into RN, as a more efficient version of the RN patch he did for the 2004 FSN, as it's easier to put FSN into RN than it is to put RN into FSN, so in order to avoid alienating the audiences I wanted to keep the experience of "FSN with RN features" but also provide something else that was just full on RN, but since we had access to the text changes I decided I would apply some, such as the removal of some uses of "x says this in a y tone" since RN is voiced, and the removal of some more infamous moments like some of Shirou's rather sexist comments that have given him a rather negative reputation in the community, but was very conservative towards the FSN version of the text.

To answer your question, other references to Sakura being raped were made into if statments as well, in fact I might just change that because I think I went overboard.  I blame UBW for this.  In Fate I only added if statments to things like references to the H scenes and whatnot, and left lines like "Kill them or rape them" from Illya to Berserker alone.  but then in UBW, there was so little sexual content I kinda became sort of super observant and used them on things I may have overlooked in Fate and HF, such as Shirou feeling Rin's breasts when they were hiding in the corner, or the line about Shinji imagining himself raping Saber.  It also doesn't help that the scene where Caster tortures Saber was considered an H scene so I used if statements on those too.  So by the time I got to HF, UBW had put me into the mindset of, "if it's sexual, then use an if statement."  I think I may have gone overboard as I probably don't need to accomodate the different versions of Sakura's other abuses........no wait......shit I do because of the Lust Worms vs Crest Worms, which is important to the H/H alts.......damn.  See, it's tough to find where to draw the line.  Though I think some stuff like Kotomine saying she has suffered sexual abuse and Sakura herself saying she was raped while they were in the rain could be left in, so I'll go ahead and change that when I fix the other stuff.

Clarifying the suggestion I made:  Basically the uncensoring switch and the H switch are independant of one another so if we use the unensoring switch to keep the original version of the Shinji/Sakura relationship, you can keep H scenes off, leave uncensoring on, which normally would do nothing without H scenes on but in this case would be the new flag check for the Shinji Sakura content.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Cherry Lover on July 16, 2014, 01:55:12 AM
Well it's kind of a difficult place to be in because of how RN has been treated.  The ideal way for it to work would have been for FSN to have been TL'ed, RN TL'ed, and then someone to have come in and made some kind of fusion patch, but the order was mixed around.  MM first added the voices to FSN, then Waku Waku added some but not all of the new effects and scenes from RN, so RN turned into something you patched into FSN because of this.  The project started out with Waku Waku putting the MM text into RN, as a more efficient version of the RN patch he did for the 2004 FSN, as it's easier to put FSN into RN than it is to put RN into FSN, so in order to avoid alienating the audiences I wanted to keep the experience of "FSN with RN features" but also provide something else that was just full on RN, but since we had access to the text changes I decided I would apply some, such as the removal of some uses of "x says this in a y tone" since RN is voiced, and the removal of some more infamous moments like some of Shirou's rather sexist comments that have given him a rather negative reputation in the community, but was very conservative towards the FSN version of the text.

Hmm, I'm not sure if the removal of "x says this in y tone" is always sensible since, whilst RN has voices, the voices are not translated, so an English speaker might not always pick up on that.

As for the rest, I guess I can see your point.

Quote
To answer your question, other references to Sakura being raped were made into if statments as well, in fact I might just change that because I think I went overboard.  I blame UBW for this.  In Fate I only added if statments to things like references to the H scenes and whatnot, and left lines like "Kill them or rape them" from Illya to Berserker alone.  but then in UBW, there was so little sexual content I kinda became sort of super observant and used them on things I may have overlooked in Fate and HF, such as Shirou feeling Rin's breasts when they were hiding in the corner, or the line about Shinji imagining himself raping Saber.  It also doesn't help that the scene where Caster tortures Saber was considered an H scene so I used if statements on those too.  So by the time I got to HF, UBW had put me into the mindset of, "if it's sexual, then use an if statement."  I think I may have gone overboard as I probably don't need to accomodate the different versions of Sakura's other abuses........no wait......shit I do because of the Lust Worms vs Crest Worms, which is important to the H/H alts.......damn.  See, it's tough to find where to draw the line.  Though I think some stuff like Kotomine saying she has suffered sexual abuse and Sakura herself saying she was raped while they were in the rain could be left in, so I'll go ahead and change that when I fix the other stuff.

Ah, OK, fair enough.

Quote
Clarifying the suggestion I made:  Basically the uncensoring switch and the H switch are independant of one another so if we use the unensoring switch to keep the original version of the Shinji/Sakura relationship, you can keep H scenes off, leave uncensoring on, which normally would do nothing without H scenes on but in this case would be the new flag check for the Shinji Sakura content.

Sure, but that doesn't answer what I was asking. Obviously it works fine in the case where the H-scenes are turned off, but what happens in the case where the H-scenes are turned on but the uncensoring is not? Would the player then get the RN version of the Shinji/Sakura scene? If so, it would really need to be explained well.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Jacktheinfinite101 on July 16, 2014, 02:04:19 AM
Oh shit, that's a good point.  That might be problematic since it would be weird.  After all the reason she refuses Shinji is because she's been with Shirou so the rape scene really doesn't work without the H scenes.  This is why working with the sexual content can be tricky.  It was much easier to ignore violence censorship, but sexual violence like rape can be tricky if it potentially refernces the H scenes.  For example, one line from Gil about "It should be a woman's joy to be held down and violated" was censored down, at first I ignored it, but then realized it also says "It's not like you're a virgin" and was like "...........fuck that's an H scene reference".  Granted some of the dialogue that wasn't changed still feels like H references they were too lazy to take out.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Cherry Lover on July 16, 2014, 02:10:20 AM
Well, I think the rape scene does still work without the sex scene, because the important point is more that Shirou loves and has accepted Sakura than that they have had sex. Admittedly it's a while since I've read it, though. But, having the H content and not the other uncensored content (such as rape mentions) definitely would be weird.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Jacktheinfinite101 on July 16, 2014, 05:04:07 AM
Well, I think the rape scene does still work without the sex scene, because the important point is more that Shirou loves and has accepted Sakura than that they have had sex. Admittedly it's a while since I've read it, though. But, having the H content and not the other uncensored content (such as rape mentions) definitely would be weird.


Right, so at the moment we're kinda stuck with relying on the H patch unfortunately.  I'll make a note in the readme though.  Also one of the two major tech problems has been solved so I'll start looking at some of the stuff I used if statements on to see if I can just make some of them independent of the H patch.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Cherry Lover on July 16, 2014, 02:55:28 PM
Well, I think the rape scene does still work without the sex scene, because the important point is more that Shirou loves and has accepted Sakura than that they have had sex. Admittedly it's a while since I've read it, though. But, having the H content and not the other uncensored content (such as rape mentions) definitely would be weird.


Right, so at the moment we're kinda stuck with relying on the H patch unfortunately.  I'll make a note in the readme though.

What do you mean that you're stuck with relying on the H patch?

Quote
Also one of the two major tech problems has been solved so I'll start looking at some of the stuff I used if statements on to see if I can just make some of them independent of the H patch.

OK.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Jacktheinfinite101 on July 23, 2014, 07:57:26 AM
Release 1.2 is here: http://www.mediafire.com/download/ygpumuc7t4ib1ug/Fate+Stay+Night+Realta+Nua+English.rar (http://www.mediafire.com/download/ygpumuc7t4ib1ug/Fate+Stay+Night+Realta+Nua+English.rar)

Changes:
-Fixed bug in prologue where "return to top" option is useable but causes crash
-Applied many spelling and grammar fixes found both by BL users and MM forum users
-Fixed crash that happens when you try to access the Wakame Easter Egg in UBW
-Fixed bug where Vita OST patch is required
-Added link to LAV filters in the readme for people experiencing OP crash issues
-Added modified version of the MM flowchart into the rar file.
-Added in game flowchart with selectable scenes and the ability to alter flags, requires player to complete the game (get all 5 route endings and view LE) to unlock so it can't be used to cheat.
-Uploaded to different site since some people were experiencing troubles DLing from MEGA.

Things to do when Jack manages to pull himself away from the Destiny Beta:
-Make video showing the in game flowchart off
-Add more descriptions of how the patch works into the OP for people who can't be bothered to actually watch the fucking video.
-Upload lower res versions of the OP patch for people who can't handle the HD videos.
-Re-work how the patch handles cycling between the 2004 FSN version of the Shinji Sakura relationship and the RN version.
-Find time to post on other TM community sites.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: SINIB on July 24, 2014, 02:50:29 AM
You did it! You posted on other community sites!
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Cherry Lover on July 24, 2014, 04:17:15 AM
I think he means other than BL and DSM :P

(Admittedly, I'm not aware of there being any other TM community sites, so...).
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Jacktheinfinite101 on July 24, 2014, 12:31:48 PM
13uster gave me a couple places that I could post to.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Xamusel on August 15, 2014, 07:26:25 PM
...so, because I'm curious about the specifics, what programs did you use to make the revised patches for Fate/stay Night? It just seems... I dunno, interesting, to look for a way to better translate Visual Novels and get them out there to the English speaking crowd (plus, I'm looking for a way to translate Japanese games, myself).
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: SINIB on August 15, 2014, 07:32:46 PM
I know they used notepad++ alot, and some image editor or other, I don't know what other programs were used.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Jacktheinfinite101 on August 15, 2014, 07:33:54 PM
Well they aren't revised patches for FSN, these patches are for PC RN, and PC RN allows me to use more programs than FSN would for compiling.  The main tool I used is something called Kikiriki, a command prompt tool that can unpack and repack xp3 files with little difficulty.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Xamusel on August 15, 2014, 07:56:36 PM
Is that so? Thanks for letting me know that much.

So... how would you recommend I get to those programs for translating these sorts of games?
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: SINIB on August 15, 2014, 09:56:26 PM
You can getkikiriki on the TL wiki
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Xamusel on August 15, 2014, 10:08:13 PM
Ah... thanks for that info. I'll see about that.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: kenzu on August 21, 2014, 01:13:16 PM
I managed to install your FSN version and I salute you. It’s really impressive how you managed to pull all that off.
For now, I just ctrl-scrolled through HF, since I'm planning to play FSN again. I'll probably start before the new 2014 anime starts airing. Right now, I wanted to check if my favorite scenes received the “treatment” and was pleasantly surprised. I quickly switched to the uncensored version when I saw the first h-alternate scene, since I prefer it that way.
The problem about censoring, switching the relationship between Sakura and Shinji seems a bit pointless to me, since those who know, already know. And not just that, but any disturbing scenes written by Nasu were supposed to be disturbing.

I noticed a weird mistake in Sparks Liner High. The names Kanshou and Bakuya seemed to have been switched. In the original, it was white Yang-sword Kanshou, and black Yin-sword Bakuya.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Cherry Lover on August 21, 2014, 02:17:04 PM
Well, we've already had a discussion about the censorship of Sakura's backstory and relationship with Shinji in the censored version. In principle, Jack agrees that it would be good to be able to have the censored H-scenes with the uncensored backstory, but he's not had a chance to implement it just yet.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Jacktheinfinite101 on August 21, 2014, 02:35:32 PM
Since you probably do not follow what's going on too well since most of that happens on BL.  We are in the process of re-doing the switch system and we intend to have a "violence" switch.  Right now a few others are nitpicking over the order of the options and I'm just letting them decide it amongst themselves since I don't care either way.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Kat on November 26, 2014, 01:37:01 PM
^It has been done already by the time I post this, I think
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Koto on November 30, 2014, 10:17:02 PM
And I'm not bitter about it at all!
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Cherry Lover on November 30, 2014, 10:52:26 PM
What?

I have literally no idea what you are talking about....
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Kat on December 01, 2014, 03:00:33 AM
At this rate Jack's patch may be endangered by NintendoManiac64's CRT derails and Tobias tempted to lock down that thread.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Kotomine_Rin on December 01, 2014, 03:02:39 AM
It's ok, we are safe here.
...right?
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Kat on December 01, 2014, 03:05:19 AM
Yeah, NM64 would never rear his head out of CRT threa- Jack's project thread.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: SINIB on December 01, 2014, 03:13:50 AM
I don't even think he knows Dark Side of the Moon exists.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Kat on December 01, 2014, 03:16:31 AM
inb4 he gets permed one day and migrates here.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: SINIB on December 01, 2014, 03:17:14 AM
And is imminently banned.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Kat on December 01, 2014, 03:21:53 AM
Hey, his derails would bring more activity.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Kotomine_Rin on December 01, 2014, 03:25:16 AM
Quality>quantity.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: SINIB on December 01, 2014, 03:30:26 AM
Maybe I should make a thread for his derails in preparation for his arrival.
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Kotomine_Rin on December 01, 2014, 03:31:51 AM
The tech shenanigans bonanza.

Has a nice ring to it dont you think?
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: SINIB on December 01, 2014, 03:38:11 AM
We need to gather pictures of Tech Rin!
Title: Re: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project
Post by: Kat on December 04, 2014, 10:11:48 PM
He got a public warning. A one step closer.