Dark Side of the Moon

Type Moon => Fanfiction => Lantz's fics => Topic started by: lantzblades on April 16, 2013, 02:25:22 AM

Title: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 16, 2013, 02:25:22 AM
ok, this is a thread to discuss the events happening, what'd you like to see in flesh and fantasy and to answer the poll above, this poll is for a companion for Satoshi, in this case it stands for traveling companion, the characters voted for with join the story and get to to have lemon encounters outside of the set pieces

you can vote for a total of ten characters but can't change your vote
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 16, 2013, 11:49:12 AM
Is not being able to change your vote a requirement you have imposed, or a limitation of the forum? If it's the second then I'll look to see if I can fix it. I'm not going to vote yet, in any case, because I'd like to know how the numbers are stacking up first, in order to ensure the characters I really want get in.

Also, why is Lancer listed (and ditto Archer)? Surely they're not going to be fucking Satoshi....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 16, 2013, 05:15:25 PM
it's not a limitation, it's the default option which I didn't change, you have to vote before you can see the results (myself included it seems) and traveling companion means traveling companion, not sex partner.  instead of being "universe X's archer who's paired with character Y" he would be a free agent so to speak none of the choices have to do toshi, i notice you failed to mention saber...
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 16, 2013, 05:52:06 PM
Ah, actually, I didn't have to vote before seeing the results (presumably that comes with admin powers...). I can probably change the options if necessary, otherwise I'll probably just vote for 4-5 characters who I really care about.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 16, 2013, 06:02:52 PM
in any case, do vote when you get the chance
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 16, 2013, 06:30:34 PM
Well, I'll vote later, then, I'll see if anyone else wants to make deals or anything like that before I commit.

When does the poll close?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 16, 2013, 06:33:03 PM
when i lock it.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 16, 2013, 06:36:10 PM
Yes, the question was when that will be....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 16, 2013, 06:37:23 PM
when it's clear that no more votes are coming any time soon.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 16, 2013, 06:37:51 PM
Ah, OK.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 16, 2013, 07:04:01 PM
Well, anyway, if anyone wants to make a deal to vote for some of the Sakuras in return for a vote for their favourite, I'm willing to do so. I currently have 4 choices I'm certain I will vote for, the rest I don't know (or I might even consider not bothering).
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 16, 2013, 08:13:35 PM
if you say so ok
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 17, 2013, 12:14:30 AM
Also, what does everyone else hope to see in this?

Personally, I'm mostly interested in BDSM scenes, Sakura/Rider scenes and, especially, BDSM scenes with Sakura and/or Rider :)
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 19, 2013, 09:32:32 PM
well in my case ideas on set pieces is what i'd like to hear.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 19, 2013, 09:47:48 PM
Well, I have tons of porn ideas, but most of them I have already given you, and they're not designed to fit into anything related to F&F specifically.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 19, 2013, 10:01:38 PM
by set piece i mean a world Idea, in example a world where saber never died, vampire dimension, a theme.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 19, 2013, 10:03:39 PM
by set piece i mean a world Idea, in example a world where saber never died, vampire dimension, a theme.
Ah, OK, rather than specific scenes...?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 19, 2013, 10:07:02 PM
yes rather than scenes.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 19, 2013, 10:16:23 PM
Can we suggest scene ideas as part of that?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 19, 2013, 10:42:30 PM
I guess, You have to remember two things about that however.

details should be limited, broad strokes and secondly that ideas are subject to adaptions.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 19, 2013, 10:56:56 PM
I guess, You have to remember two things about that however.

details should be limited, broad strokes and secondly that ideas are subject to adaptions.
What do you mean by "details should be limited"?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 19, 2013, 11:03:26 PM
just so, if you give too many details and it doesn't get voted for or otherwise gets changed interested parties aren't disappointed.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 19, 2013, 11:11:04 PM
Ah, I see....

The thing is, the details are mostly what I tend to come up with....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 19, 2013, 11:27:15 PM
well good time to learn not to give so many
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 19, 2013, 11:44:34 PM
Well, yeah, but the point is that, a lot of the time, the details are actually what interests me....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 19, 2013, 11:54:02 PM
yes but getting indepth makes it hard for ideas to actually be executed
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 19, 2013, 11:58:45 PM
yes but getting indepth makes it hard for ideas to actually be executed
Well, yes, true.

The thing is, what I'll most likely end up doing is thinking of the in-depth thing anyway, then cutting details out and feeling unhappy when you don't come up with the same details....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 20, 2013, 12:18:27 AM
unfortunately unavoidable it would seem.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 20, 2013, 12:33:28 AM
unfortunately unavoidable it would seem.
Well, yeah.

The thing is, we have no context here, so all I'm likely to do is take porn ideas I already thought of but which you never got around to writing and use the setting of those to try to get them into F&F.....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 20, 2013, 07:40:38 PM
well in any case post ideas here, try not to use Satoshi as he's the avatar
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 20, 2013, 07:44:16 PM
well in any case post ideas here, try not to use Satoshi as he's the avatar
Eh, what?

Surely Toshi is necessary for the idea to occur....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 20, 2013, 07:45:14 PM
not so, remember the canon fate etcetera characters are involved in the places he goes
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 20, 2013, 08:13:12 PM
Well, yes, of course, but he's still going to show up and affect things.

Anyway, I do have an idea, or at least part of one. Rider would be a freelance Ninja or something similar, probably in a Feudal-esque Japan. Each family would be a clan fighting for control, except that the Matou clan was wiped out by Rider a while back, under the orders of someone who had hired her. Shinji and Zouken were very painfully killed, and Sakura (who had been taken in by the Matou and was being tortured, raped etc. (like in canon) to make her compliant and turn her into a perfect spy) was kidnapped and, officially, tortured to death. In reality, though, Rider took a liking to her whilst she was planning out the attack, and took her captive with the intention of giving her a happy life, using her love of torture (and Sakura's helplessness making it easy to take her) to justify it to her employer, as well as allowing her to pretend Sakura was dead.

Sakura is now a Ninja in training (having asked Rider to train her so she can repay her kindness somewhat and do something useful), as well as being in a sexual relationship with Rider. The training includes torture resistance training, which Rider very much enjoys. Rin, meanwhile, is the head of the Tohsaka house, desperately looking for the person who killed her sister in order to enact revenge. Not sure about the others, probably Shirou would be the head of another house.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 20, 2013, 10:03:37 PM
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to justify it to her employer

Quote
The training includes torture resistance training

not the way ninjas work, other than this there's nothing wrong with the idea
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 20, 2013, 10:21:53 PM
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to justify it to her employer

Quote
The training includes torture resistance training

not the way ninjas work, other than this there's nothing wrong with the idea
What do you mean it's "not the way Ninjas work"? If a Ninja got captured they would certainly be tortured, so it figures they'd want to be able to resist it (and, ideally, also escape).
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 20, 2013, 10:35:33 PM
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so it figures they'd want to be able to resist it

a ninja would ideally kill themselves. the training would be endurance training for other reasons but not torture.

and she would fake sakura's death period, no asking.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 20, 2013, 10:58:25 PM
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so it figures they'd want to be able to resist it

a ninja would ideally kill themselves. the training would be endurance training for other reasons but not torture.
They might ideally kill theirselves, but it's not always possible. Certainly Ninjas did often get captured in real life, and not spilling secrets in such a situation would be very important.

Basically, though, I'm just trying to find a reason to have torture scenes without making the setting very dark. Also, I like the idea of Sakura's training involving practice missions where, if she's captured, she's "interrogated", mainly because I like the idea of her being dragged to Rider in chains....

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and she would fake sakura's death period, no asking.
That's what I was saying. She would convince her employer that Sakura was dead by claiming to have captured and then tortured her.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 21, 2013, 12:20:02 AM
Quote
Also, I like the idea of Sakura's training involving practice missions where, if she's captured, she's "interrogated", mainly because I like the idea of her being dragged to Rider in chains....

overly complex, just have Rider whip her ass if she fails.

Quote
That's what I was saying. She would convince her employer that Sakura was dead by claiming to have captured and then tortured her.

easier to cut sakura's hair bleed her a bit and leave the blood and hair in the burning remains of the matou house.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 21, 2013, 12:44:18 AM
Quote
Also, I like the idea of Sakura's training involving practice missions where, if she's captured, she's "interrogated", mainly because I like the idea of her being dragged to Rider in chains....

overly complex, just have Rider whip her ass if she fails.
What do you mean?

Remember Rider isn't intended to be abusing Sakura here.

Quote
Quote
That's what I was saying. She would convince her employer that Sakura was dead by claiming to have captured and then tortured her.

easier to cut sakura's hair bleed her a bit and leave the blood and hair in the burning remains of the matou house.
Yeah, I guess.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 21, 2013, 12:59:31 AM
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What do you mean?

it's ninja training, you fuck up you die, so an ass whooping is a reasonable punishment objectively speaking, rider can apply the context of ass whooping freely.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 21, 2013, 01:05:15 AM
Quote
What do you mean?

it's ninja training, you fuck up you die, so an ass whooping is a reasonable punishment objectively speaking, rider can apply the context of ass whooping freely.
Yeah, I guess. So, basically, if Sakura fails, Rider gets to do whatever she likes to her (which means sexual torture, since Rider is a sadist...)?

That makes sense, although I suspect Rider would be comforting towards Sakura afterwards.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 21, 2013, 01:19:34 AM
in theory yes.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 21, 2013, 01:30:06 AM
in theory yes.
What?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 21, 2013, 01:31:28 AM
in theory yes, i can't say in practice because it is not written yet.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 21, 2013, 01:44:27 AM
in theory yes, i can't say in practice because it is not written yet.
Ah, OK, I see.

Well, anyway, we should probably work out what everyone else will be doing whilst Rider is "training" Sakura. I think Rin should definitely get the wrong end of the stick and end up in Rider's dungeon....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 21, 2013, 02:02:20 AM
no way, if Rin is seeking vengeance she's a good guy. no dungeon for her.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 21, 2013, 02:11:47 AM
no way, if Rin is seeking vengeance she's a good guy. no dungeon for her.
I didn't say she'd stay there for long.

She is Sakura's sister, after all. It would just be a funny misunderstanding....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 21, 2013, 02:20:03 AM
i'm not sure that counts as funny.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 21, 2013, 02:51:06 AM
Well, no, perhaps.

Still, Rin does need to come across Rider at some point, and her getting in a mix-up makes sense....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 21, 2013, 03:52:28 AM
well maybe, i doubt she'd go herself though.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 21, 2013, 04:11:15 AM
Well, I dunno, it is her little sister.

Also, if so, that probably means the poor sod she does send will be in quite a lot of trouble (more so than she would be if she went herself). I mean, if Sakura sees Rin there having gone to avenge her, she'll ensure she's freed and given good treatment. If it's someone sent by Rin, then she might not realise what was going on.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 21, 2013, 04:31:28 PM
if the internal logic says send a samurai then so be it.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 21, 2013, 04:40:27 PM
if the internal logic says send a samurai then so be it.
What?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 21, 2013, 05:37:10 PM
important people send others to get the job done, if rin is important and sends say archer then so be it.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 21, 2013, 05:43:55 PM
important people send others to get the job done, if rin is important and sends say archer then so be it.
Well, yes, normally, but she would be very determined to avenge her sister. Also, I would like them to meet up at some point....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 22, 2013, 12:27:09 AM
normally isn't different here, after all they wouldn't let her just walk into a dangerous situation.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 22, 2013, 12:46:35 AM
normally isn't different here, after all they wouldn't let her just walk into a dangerous situation.
Well, no, true.

That does cause an issue with regards to Sakura and Rin, though....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 22, 2013, 08:53:18 PM
Quote
That does cause an issue with regards to Sakura and Rin, though....

not that i can see

also th poll winners are

Rider
Arcuied
Sakura
Rider (Extra)
Akiha
Ciel

these six are for sure

but we were aimming for ten characters so there's going to be a second vote to determine the last four included.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 22, 2013, 09:13:45 PM
Quote
That does cause an issue with regards to Sakura and Rin, though....

not that i can see
Well, if Rin doesn't turn up, she won't find and reconcile with Sakura....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 22, 2013, 10:57:22 PM
you're thinking too limited in this case

also new poll is up, 4 votes this time.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 22, 2013, 10:59:21 PM
you're thinking too limited in this case
What?

Also, it was never made clear what the technology level in this setting would be (it affects Rider's punishments of Sakura). Would it be feudal-era tech or modern-era tech?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 22, 2013, 11:30:57 PM
they can reconcile without rin going to deal with it in person.

and i would assume feudal tech
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 22, 2013, 11:46:34 PM
they can reconcile without rin going to deal with it in person.
Well, Rin needs to both find out about her and then go and meet her....

Quote
and i would assume feudal tech
Ah, OK.

It's just that modern tech provides for more interesting ideas for training....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 24, 2013, 11:02:15 PM
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Well, Rin needs to both find out about her and then go and meet her....

archer can bring sakura to her.

Quote
Ah, OK.

It's just that modern tech provides for more interesting ideas for training....

contextually modern tech would be out of place.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 24, 2013, 11:13:47 PM
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Well, Rin needs to both find out about her and then go and meet her....

archer can bring sakura to her.
Well, yes, but that would mean leaving Rider, who is her lover and also training her.

Quote
Quote
Ah, OK.

It's just that modern tech provides for more interesting ideas for training....

contextually modern tech would be out of place.
Not necessarily. A feudal-style system doesn't mean feudal-era technology. And, it makes travelling a hell of a lot easier, too.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 24, 2013, 11:23:19 PM
Quote
Well, yes, but that would mean leaving Rider, who is her lover and also training her.

that's a plot event.

Quote
Not necessarily. A feudal-style system doesn't mean feudal-era technology. And, it makes travelling a hell of a lot easier, too.

fails the immersion test when ninja's roll up in a pinto thumping star power
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 24, 2013, 11:25:14 PM
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Well, yes, but that would mean leaving Rider, who is her lover and also training her.

that's a plot event.
What?

Quote
Quote
Not necessarily. A feudal-style system doesn't mean feudal-era technology. And, it makes travelling a hell of a lot easier, too.

fails the immersion test when ninja's roll up in a pinto thumping star power
Well, lol, perhaps. I just like the use of modern technology in terms of the "training"....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 24, 2013, 11:26:44 PM
an event which creates or is resolved by plot.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 24, 2013, 11:31:02 PM
an event which creates or is resolved by plot.
Yes, and?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 24, 2013, 11:43:15 PM
Sakura doesn't need to leave by choice
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 25, 2013, 12:15:00 AM
Sakura doesn't need to leave by choice
So, Archer would kidnap a ninja-in-training from a master ninja's house...?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 25, 2013, 12:56:34 AM
well presuming he's a swordsman it is possible.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 25, 2013, 12:57:49 AM
well presuming he's a swordsman it is possible.
How?

Also, Rider will not be impressed....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 25, 2013, 01:00:39 AM
well you don't become an awesome swordsman without having skill, i assume he cuts his way through others

Rider doesn't need to like it.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 25, 2013, 01:08:12 AM
well you don't become an awesome swordsman without having skill, i assume he cuts his way through others
Yes, to some extent, but not a significant number of armed guards.

Quote
Rider doesn't need to like it.
I would imagine that she would mount a rescue, and Sakura would also try to escape.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 25, 2013, 01:26:52 AM
Quote
I would imagine that she would mount a rescue, and Sakura would also try to escape.

again that can be a plot thing
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 25, 2013, 01:41:38 AM
Quote
I would imagine that she would mount a rescue, and Sakura would also try to escape.

again that can be a plot thing
True.

I thought we weren't aiming for really complex plots here, though, but rather for porn and comedy....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 25, 2013, 01:53:30 AM
can't all be comedy and porn, plot has to at least string things together, otherwise it's nothing but random senes
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 25, 2013, 10:46:38 AM
can't all be comedy and porn, plot has to at least string things together, otherwise it's nothing but random senes
Well, yes, of course. I'm just worried we're detracting from the hot Rider x Sakura BDSM stuff here :P
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 25, 2013, 06:20:45 PM
I think it's  fine, see unless it's a one time gag then Satoshi and which ever companion he has will stick around a world for a longtime, at least enough to get the world's concept made clear (that reminds me, given that the  vote is a tie we'll add archer to the list of companions and let the voters pick one character of the tied as their choice, this means I get one, elf gets  one and you mike get one to choose to fill in the last three spots) at any rate good concept for an arc but (lol Arc butt) I think we should move on and get to another one
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 25, 2013, 09:12:46 PM
I think it's  fine, see unless it's a one time gag then Satoshi and which ever companion he has will stick around a world for a longtime, at least enough to get the world's concept made clear
Ah, OK, fair enough. So, plenty of time for Rider to train Sakura, Sakura to be kidnapped, "rescued" by Rider, "punished" for letting herself be kidnapped and then to introduce Rider to her sister, then (my guess is that Rider would end up working for Rin...)? :P

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(that reminds me, given that the  vote is a tie we'll add archer to the list of companions and let the voters pick one character of the tied as their choice, this means I get one, elf gets  one and you mike get one to choose to fill in the last three spots)
OK.

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at any rate good concept for an arc but (lol Arc butt) I think we should move on and get to another one
Well, yeah, possibly, although we've only really set up a few characters.

I also have some general ideas for porn set-ups for that arc....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 25, 2013, 09:50:11 PM
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I also have some general ideas for porn set-ups for that arc....

which arc

Quote
Well, yeah, possibly, although we've only really set up a few characters.

no need to over water it buddy
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 25, 2013, 10:00:57 PM
Quote
I also have some general ideas for porn set-ups for that arc....

which arc
The one we just discussed....

Quote
Quote
Well, yeah, possibly, although we've only really set up a few characters.

no need to over water it buddy
What?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 25, 2013, 10:13:23 PM
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The one we just discussed....

the last sentence i referred to arcuied

Quote
What?

let the rest of it grow naturally.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 25, 2013, 11:06:58 PM
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The one we just discussed....

the last sentence i referred to arcuied
Oh, OK.

Well, I meant the plot arc, not the character Arc. Hence why I didn't capitalise it....

Quote
Quote
What?

let the rest of it grow naturally.
Well, yeah, OK....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 27, 2013, 08:09:17 PM
alright well archer is included in the list, what i'm doing now is let each of the three voters choose one of the tied characters to include on the list, i'll state my choice last so mike, elf get to stating your choice
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 27, 2013, 08:45:25 PM
Well, OK, I'll pick Caster. I think she'll lead to some hot scenes.

Also, I have an idea for a setting. It's some sort of gameshow where the contestants are split into two teams (or, alternately, there is one team of contestants and a group of opponents who are part of the show) and have to fight each other and break into their opponents base. Obviously, you can't kill people, but captives can be treated however you like (which means torturing them for information, raping them etc.), and the losers become the sex slaves of the winners for the week (which is, of course, televised). Also, most likely, they're given aphrodisiacs and some sort of drug that makes them more sadistic (although not out of control) before fighting, to improve the action.

Most likely, it'd be part of a more general universe where everything is a gameshow (obviously a lot of it sexually-charged). You could have various different gameshows with erotic content (mostly less BDSM-related than this one).
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Elf on April 28, 2013, 02:33:23 AM
I'll chose Rin.

It seems odd to have Archer there without his Master.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 28, 2013, 02:42:31 AM
Rider
Arcuied
Sakura
Rider (Extra)
Akiha
Ciel
Rin
Caster
Archer

these are the nine choose which leaves me with one heck of a conundrum on who to choose.

as for your idea mike, world building theory dictates that you have to present a bunch of games both family friendly and otherwise if the world is based around game shows
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 28, 2013, 02:44:44 AM
as for your idea mike, world building theory dictates that you have to present a bunch of games both family friendly and otherwise if the world is based around game shows
Well, certainly there would need to be other gameshows, I haven't thought of any yet, though. I would imagine that the Grail War would be some sort of gameshow, though....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 28, 2013, 03:28:22 PM
OK, well, I have a few more ideas for gameshows. They're all erotic in nature, though, because I don't have a clear enough idea of the nature of the world to work out what non-erotic ones would be sensible. Firstly, it's a gameshow something like Crystal Maze, only with the challenges being erotic in nature. Also, if you get locked in a room, you get raped. Secondly, a gameshow where one team member is captured and tortured, and the others have to perform various challenges in order to find them before they can be forced into revealing some secret.

Finally, I had the idea for a competition between teams of two, one of whom is a torturer and one who is a victim. The basic concept is that each team's torturer tortures the other team's victim, and the one who breaks first (by giving out some secret information which, when combined with the information the other team knows, allows them to find and open some safe or similar) loses. Sakura and Rider would be a team (Rider as the torturer), and likely a very strong one. Caster would be another torturer, but I'm not sure who to pair her with. To make it more interesting (so it's not just "whoever has the highest pain tolerance wins"), there would be variations, such as different themes for the torture (medieval etc.), wild-card rounds (e.g. swapping the victim and torturer around) and also probably mini-games which give the winning team an advantage. They would also probably play more than one round of torture for each match-up, in order that the different variations can be involved.

After someone has been defeated, the losers are arrested and locked in a prison cell, where they're given time to punish each other for their failure if they so desire. The winning victim, meanwhile, is left tied up until their team-mate chooses to release them (which, in practice, means kinky victory sex, to reward the victim for their endurance and to allow their team-mate to resolve things like sexual frustration from orgasm denial). I also thought of showing Rider and Sakura's training process, which consists of Rider starting out relatively gentle and encouraging Sakura to enjoy BDSM sex, followed by progressively longer torture sessions where she's rewarded with sex and affection at the end if she succeeds (and punished by being locked in a cage overnight if she fails), and also some sessions where Rider won't stop even if she begs her to (to force her beyond what she sees as her limits). Sakura consents to all of this, of course, because there's a big prize on offer for the winner (and, Rider is careful to not push her too hard). Basically, the idea would be for Sakura to mentally associate the pain with sexual enjoyment, and surviving that pain with love and excitement later on, allowing her to push herself further and endure more.

Another possible game is something like Blind Date, only with sex. Or, a game where you have a guy/girl up for auction and the contestants have to play out various games in order to win them.

Also, I could really do with some actual help in working out this idea in more detail. At the moment it's just a vague concept of "world with gameshows", and I am not sure how to turn it into something more than that. Just expecting me to do everything and giving completely-useless one-line replies is not going to work.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 28, 2013, 08:25:01 PM
I think you should pick one to discuss and we'll work on expanding it.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 28, 2013, 08:56:32 PM
I think you should pick one to discuss and we'll work on expanding it.
Well, OK, but do you want the setting worked out more generally first?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 28, 2013, 08:59:00 PM
it'll work itself out, trust me.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 28, 2013, 09:02:47 PM
it'll work itself out, trust me.
Well, OK.

Well, in that case, I'd like to work out the one with the teams fighting each other (the one I suggested first) first.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 29, 2013, 02:23:44 AM
Rider
Arcuied
Sakura
Rider (Extra)
Akiha
Ciel
Rin
Caster
Archer
Nero (extra)

that's the final list.

as for the idea, first pick a host dude, every show has one
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 29, 2013, 02:35:42 AM
as for the idea, first pick a host dude, every show has one
Well, yeah, of course. I'm not sure the host is the most important role, though, and we should also work out the general structure....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 29, 2013, 02:49:25 AM
I disagree the contestants are the most important part of the show, if you're looking for a bdsm host I'd say caster
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 29, 2013, 02:56:48 AM
I disagree the contestants are the most important part of the show, if you're looking for a bdsm host I'd say caster
Well, the thing is, for that particular gameshow the host doesn't do any BDSM stuff. The BDSM is done by the contestants, hence why I didn't pick Rider or Caster.

The other question is the basic format. Do we have two teams fighting each other, or a team vs. a few people who are employed by the show to go out and catch the team members?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 29, 2013, 03:03:52 AM
Single team with studio appointed bad guys
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 29, 2013, 03:05:23 AM
Single team with studio appointed bad guys
Yeah, makes sense.

In that case, I'd say the "bad guys" would be Rider, Caster and probably at least one guy (not sure who, possibly Lancer). Maybe a few more could be added too.

As for the presenter, I dunno. I'm not entirely sure what their role would be here.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 29, 2013, 03:07:55 AM
Hype  machine for the  show
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 29, 2013, 03:14:05 AM
Hype  machine for the  show
Yeah, so someone like Caster isn't a great choice, because she makes a good "bad guy". Not sure who would be, though....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 29, 2013, 03:37:44 AM
Someone good at commentary
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 29, 2013, 03:39:58 AM
Someone good at commentary
Kotomine maybe?

Anyway, we should talk about the set-up of the gameshow....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 29, 2013, 04:16:06 AM
Gross, also make it a live studio audience
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 29, 2013, 04:18:13 AM
Gross
What?

Quote
also make it a live studio audience
Well, that will be difficult to do given the nature of the game, I would say. The team that is running away needs to be able to hide, after all, and I was intending the game to be played outdoors. Although, I guess the bad guy's base (which will be where they bring captives) could be in a studio....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 29, 2013, 04:31:23 AM
The outside portion could be televised
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 29, 2013, 12:51:13 PM
The outside portion could be televised
Yeah, makes sense. Most of the actual gameplay would be outside, though, even if the punishment stuff would be indoors.

I also had an idea for how the show would be structured. Basically, there would be a big dungeon underneath/next to the stage area, led to by a "door to hell", which they make a big fanfare of, and which looks very scary. At the beginning of the show, it would start with introducing the new contestants, with the screams of the previous defeated contestants filtering up from the dungeon (if they lost, anyway). Then, there would be a reminder of what happened last week, including highlights of the imprisonment and torture of the losers (the whole thing would be broadcast on the internet, and a much longer version would be sold as a porn film). If the contestants lost, then they'd be freed from the dungeon at that point, in front of the new contestants. Of course, they've been tortured and raped for a week, so they're not going to look particularly great and, for the benefit of the show, their captors would have used tortures which will leave lots of (temporary) marks, as well as raping them, covering them with cum etc. So, they're let out of the dungeon (again, to great fanfare, with the announcer telling everyone that is the price of failure), and taken off to a recovery area (where at least some of them will likely have sex, since they'll have been denied orgasms during their imprisonment).

Once they've done that, the game will start. Captives during the game won't be taken to the dungeon, but will, instead, be kept in a cage on the surface, and any torture, rape etc. will also be done on the surface. However, when the game is over, the losers will be rounded up, stripped, roughly raped and then dragged through the door to hell to begin their punishment, with appropriate music etc. If the contestants win, then there is a bit of a problem because the bad guys need to be fresh for the next week, which means they can't really be tortured for the entire previous week. I'm not sure what to do in that case. I'd say it wouldn't happen that often, though, maybe 1 week in 4.

The "underground" dungeon (I'm not sure it would actually be underground, it depends on what makes the most sense) would be a large complex with a communal prison cell, several torture chambers set up to allow any combination of tortures you could imagine, a basic shower/cleaning area for the prisoners (set up so they can be cleaned by the captors in a humiliating and possibly painful manner) and a living area for the victors (it needs to be big enough for the contestants to stay there), which is very comfortable and has everything they need (food will be brought in for them). The losers would be kept in the cell and taken out to be tortured, raped etc. whenever their captors feel like it (which would be very often). The contestants would also have to sign a contract saying that, if they refused to go through with it or tried to escape, they would be required to pay a very large fine.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 29, 2013, 10:16:42 PM
I think that's enough detail honestly. we should move on to other arcs.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 29, 2013, 10:25:12 PM
I think that's enough detail honestly. we should move on to other arcs.
Really? We've basically only planned out the porn, we've not designed the actual gameshow at all. Also, what about other possible games...?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 29, 2013, 10:34:40 PM
I think other games should be left to ear, particularly because of the lack of sectional context.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 29, 2013, 10:38:29 PM
I think other games should be left to ear, particularly because of the lack of sectional context.
What?

Also, I don't have any other arc ideas right now....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 29, 2013, 10:45:40 PM
i don't know where it'll be place, so with your idea setup the rest of the material needs to be left to balance the tone, either entering or exiting a darker period in the overall story
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 29, 2013, 10:57:45 PM
i don't know where it'll be place, so with your idea setup the rest of the material needs to be left to balance the tone, either entering or exiting a darker period in the overall story
Ah, I see, so you want lighter games, basically? I'd like the two-player torture game in there, at least, and the Crystal Maze-like one is broad enough to fit anything, as is the blind-date like one.

Also, like I said, I don't have any other ideas, so either we discuss this one or we just stop until I think of something....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 29, 2013, 11:09:52 PM
no, i need to have the other games shown to be blank slates to adjust for where it get placed.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 29, 2013, 11:34:57 PM
no, i need to have the other games shown to be blank slates to adjust for where it get placed.
Oh, OK....

Well, that's a shame, because I really like the two-team torture thing....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 29, 2013, 11:54:44 PM
*shrug* causality of the design

so we ought to move along.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 30, 2013, 12:00:33 AM
*shrug* causality of the design

Well, you could have said that before, I might have picked a different choice for the one to develop....

Quote
so we ought to move along.

Yes, like I said, what to...?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 30, 2013, 12:15:56 AM
hmmm, alternate future, based on a bad end or otherwise strange future point.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 30, 2013, 12:22:09 AM
hmmm, alternate future, based on a bad end or otherwise strange future point.

Hmm, yeah, OK, let's try to think of something....

Which Bad Ends would lead to an interesting alternate future (that doesn't involve Sakura being dead)...?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 30, 2013, 12:31:53 AM
well in example Shirou dying during hf temple fight, or other wise turning into a hard ass totalitarian hero, or just the reverse into a Utopian world with looser morals
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 30, 2013, 12:34:36 AM
well in example Shirou dying during hf temple fight, or other wise turning into a hard ass totalitarian hero, or just the reverse into a Utopian world with looser morals

Well, I'm thinking of how it would lead to porn, in particular. Shirou as a hard-ass totalitarian hero could work, although my interpretation of that would very definitely not be light....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 30, 2013, 12:41:38 AM
it would be sorta outside character too
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 30, 2013, 12:43:23 AM
it would be sorta outside character too

Well, yeah....

I'm just trying to think of a good idea.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 30, 2013, 01:08:24 AM
i'd suggest utopia rather then dystopia
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 30, 2013, 01:10:43 AM
i'd suggest utopia rather then dystopia

Well, yeah, possibly. It's just that dystopias lead to more chance of BDSM :P
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 30, 2013, 01:17:07 AM
i'd argue the opposite
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 30, 2013, 01:17:43 AM
i's argue the opposite

Really, how? Dystopias tend to involve a lot of torture etc., whereas utopias obviously do not....

But, yeah, OK, I'll go with a utopia here, because it does give more choices if nothing else, and it's less dark. So, the question is what. What sort of situation would it be (particularly given that Toshi's home world is not exactly bad...)?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 30, 2013, 01:36:15 AM
toshi's world? yeah i guess it's fairly good.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 30, 2013, 02:02:22 AM
Well, yeah, but what sort of utopia are we looking for here?

Also, I don't get how a utopia is better for BDSM than a dystopia....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 30, 2013, 02:09:26 AM
er, hmmm, like Greek futurist culture, ultra peaceful with police as a formality.

Quote
Also, I don't get how a utopia is better for BDSM than a dystopia....

free love versus rebels associating torture with, well torture
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 30, 2013, 02:19:28 AM
er, hmmm, like Greek futurist culture, ultra peaceful with police as a formality.

Well, yeah, possibly.

Quote
Quote
Also, I don't get how a utopia is better for BDSM than a dystopia....

free love versus rebels associating torture with, well torture

Well, it allows for consensual BDSM more, yes, but not so much hardcore BDSM and definitely not torture stuff.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 30, 2013, 02:35:14 AM
well crying girls isn't the point of faf anyways.

i say roll with the idea of greek like utopia
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 30, 2013, 02:42:44 AM
well crying girls isn't the point of faf anyways.

Well, no, perhaps, but it is my sort of thing....

Quote
i say roll with the idea of greek like utopia

Yeah, that probably makes sense, although it doesn't seem to have much of a BDSM element.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 30, 2013, 02:58:42 AM
unfortunate but faf is supposed to be happy and silly after all.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 30, 2013, 02:59:27 AM
unfortunate but faf is supposed to be happy and silly after all.

Well, yes, true....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 30, 2013, 03:08:48 AM
exactly, aiming for darkness is hard to begin with.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 30, 2013, 03:14:34 AM
exactly, aiming for darkness is hard to begin with.

Yeah, I guess....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 30, 2013, 03:42:51 AM
it's a good chance to practice writing happy ideas in this genre.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 30, 2013, 03:45:19 AM
Well, perhaps, but when it comes to porn I do like BDSM stuff....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 30, 2013, 03:48:58 AM
yeah but on the other hand it lets such material be a surprise and you adding vanilla stuff contributes to the tastes of others
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 30, 2013, 03:53:03 AM
Well, yes, but I'm not very good at thinking of such things....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on April 30, 2013, 11:49:08 PM
and before attempting to writing lemon stuff i wasn't any good at it.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on April 30, 2013, 11:58:24 PM
and before attempting to writing lemon stuff i wasn't any good at it.

Well, yes, but there is a difference between learning to write and coming up with ideas that aren't natural. Coming up with an idea is a much more innate process that is difficult to control. The idea just happens.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 01, 2013, 01:13:03 AM
i guess, well whatever then.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 01, 2013, 01:15:50 AM
i guess, well whatever then.

Well, OK, what do we need to work on here, then?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 01, 2013, 01:20:14 AM
nothing in particular
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 01, 2013, 01:25:07 AM
Well, we need to discuss something....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Elf on May 01, 2013, 04:20:29 AM
What about a once off of Nero attempting to build a harem, or playing matchmaker?

Like she sees Rin and Archer being all snarky to each other and realizes where that tension is from.  So she's going to do something about it.  Especially if she can watch, because she does enjoy aesthetics, and the contrasts between them would be something to behold.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 01, 2013, 04:33:49 AM
Sounds like a good subject of discussion certainly a good idea for a group meet up but what about the other 6 characters and toshi, what will they be up to?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Elf on May 01, 2013, 05:09:43 AM
Nero could be playing matchmaker for most of the other group as well.  Or inspiring an orgy in her honor.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 01, 2013, 05:26:04 AM
I think match making sounds better  who with whom?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 01, 2013, 12:33:33 PM
Sakura with Shirou.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 01, 2013, 06:04:03 PM
Referring to within the 10 companions dude so no
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 01, 2013, 06:13:49 PM
Referring to within the 10 companions dude so no

Oh, OK.

Well, then I guess Sakura would have to be with one of Caster, Rider or Toshi, unless someone has a better plan. Probably the last two, since Caster would only really be interesting for the purpose of BDSM stuff, and Rider can do that anyway.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 01, 2013, 07:29:19 PM
i'd figure satoshi would be else wise occupied with the other characters, sakura would have to find else wise occupation
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 01, 2013, 07:38:21 PM
i'd figure satoshi would be else wise occupied with the other characters

What?

Quote
sakura would have to find else wise occupation

Well, like I said, Rider is a possibility.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 01, 2013, 07:58:16 PM
Quote
What?

arc, ciel, akiha, like that
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 01, 2013, 08:05:43 PM
Quote
What?

arc, ciel, akiha, like that

Why them over Sakura?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 01, 2013, 08:11:51 PM
more fun
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 01, 2013, 08:12:50 PM
more fun

How?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 01, 2013, 08:16:11 PM
they just are
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 01, 2013, 08:19:57 PM
I see....

Well, who would go with Sakura, then...?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 01, 2013, 08:31:21 PM
dunno
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 01, 2013, 08:33:41 PM
Well, does Rider work, and who else could work?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 01, 2013, 08:37:03 PM
I guess? haven't thought about it much
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 01, 2013, 08:48:50 PM
I guess? haven't thought about it much

I see....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 01, 2013, 08:49:58 PM
well, it was just brought up
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 01, 2013, 09:05:36 PM
well, it was just brought up

Well, yes, true....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 03, 2013, 08:38:47 PM
well I think rider and sakura work, lil samey but it'll work. toshi i figured would deal with the other girls.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 03, 2013, 08:57:29 PM
well I think rider and sakura work, lil samey but it'll work. toshi i figured would deal with the other girls.

Well, yeah, the sameiness is what worries me. I just don't know if anyone else is viable, though.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 03, 2013, 09:22:45 PM
it'll be fine, as for other stuff you can pitch it here, ideas, scenes whatever.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 03, 2013, 09:24:49 PM
it'll be fine, as for other stuff you can pitch it here, ideas, scenes whatever.

Yeah, I know, I already pitched a couple of ideas. It's difficult for me to come up with stuff that fits the theme, though, since my tendancies are towards settings that start out rather dark (to allow for BDSM stuff) and then get resolved later after lots of torture scenes....

It's also difficult to come up with scenes out of nowhere, I tend to need a setting to get my mind going on them.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 03, 2013, 11:02:57 PM
setting huh, ok, roman Colosseum world set, free love artistry and all that, ruled by Nero as caesar. it's general but there it is.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 03, 2013, 11:08:12 PM
Hmm, OK, let me think a bit about that.

What sort of stuff are you looking for here? I assume you don't want hardcore torture scenes....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 03, 2013, 11:47:47 PM
not unless they make logic sense.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 03, 2013, 11:54:50 PM
not unless they make logic sense.

Well, I mean even if they do. You don't seem very fond of writing them even when I've given perfectly logical set-ups for them....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 03, 2013, 11:59:40 PM
by logical in this casei mean the not nice kind in keeping with the story.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 12:01:40 AM
by logical in this casei mean the not nice kind in keeping with the story.

What?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 04, 2013, 12:12:53 AM
torturing a prisoner or a criminal for example is ok, random servants is not.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 12:14:33 AM
torturing a prisoner or a criminal for example is ok, random servants is not.

Ah, OK, I see.

Well, who would be likely to be a prisoner? What sort of "prisoners" are you referring to here? Prisoners of war, or actual criminals?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 04, 2013, 12:52:38 AM
I imagine criminals of a high order, see assassins etcetera.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 12:56:56 AM
I imagine criminals of a high order, see assassins etcetera.

Ah, OK.

Well, who would be liable to be a criminal, then (of the female characters in particular)...?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 04, 2013, 02:06:58 AM
not particularly sure at the moment, rider maybe.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 02:08:39 AM
not particularly sure at the moment, rider maybe.

Well, for this purpose Rider would be ideal, since I find her hot....

Sakura would also be good, but turning her into a criminal isn't very easy in general, and I also am not sure I would like what comes after the torture (which is likely to be a very painful death, unless someone steps in...).
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 04, 2013, 02:33:27 AM
i think you're being too historical
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 02:42:47 AM
i think you're being too historical

Not really. In general, if you consider a criminal to be bad enough to deserve torture, you're probably not going to just then let them go....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 04, 2013, 03:43:43 AM
what i mean is think fantasy elements if you want to stop them from dying.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 03:56:41 AM
what i mean is think fantasy elements if you want to stop them from dying.

I don't get what you mean by that.

The idea I came up with so far was for Rider to be framed by Shinji or Zouken. She'd be tortured, but before she was executed her innocence would be revealed. Sakura would be made to the blame, and Rider would be given the right to torture her in retribution. She would initially torture her harshly, but would come to realise that Sakura was innocent, and would ask Nero to allow her to take Sakura as a slave (freeing her from Zouken), treating her with kindness (although she'd still be interested in kinky sex).
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 04, 2013, 04:14:53 AM
It doesn't have to match history
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 04:17:03 AM
It doesn't have to match history

Well, no, sure, but seriously torturing someone as a punishment is not usually followed by letting them go....

What did you think of my suggestion, anyway?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 04, 2013, 04:25:36 AM
Could imprison them
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 04:28:20 AM
Could imprison them

Well, yes, true, but being imprisoned is not really much of a better fate from a story viewpoint than being executed is. It still has the effect of taking you out of the story. I guess being enslaved is an option, though, although who she'd be a slave to is another matter.

Also, what did you think of my suggestion? I like it because it allows me to have two seperate torture scenes....

Also, who would be the torturer if Rider is the victim?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 04, 2013, 04:32:18 AM
It works not fond of how complex it gets but could be worse
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 04:33:30 AM
It works not fond of how complex it gets but could be worse

Hmm, what do you mean by "complex"? It's not that complex, really....

Also, like I said, who do you think would be likely to be torturing Rider. Presumably it would be someone Nero hired....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 04, 2013, 04:36:03 AM
From a plot stand point it is. As for rider's torturer I have no idea
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 03:24:54 PM
From a plot stand point it is.

Well, in what manner? And, why is that an issue?

Anyway, I have a general concept for how this whole thing would work. It would start out with Rider as a servant/slave at the Matou household (not particularly well-treated, in general). She wouldn't like Shinji or Zouken, but would be friends with Sakura, because Sakura is nice to her (she'd also notice that something was not-quite-right about Sakura's general treatment). She would also be generally opposed to the Roman system (and, in particular, slavery), although not to the point of openly fighting against Nero (not that she could do so anyway).

However, the Matous would find that she was getting close to discovering something they don't want her to find out, and so would plant evidence of her planning to assassinate Nero. She'd be arrested and taken away to be brutally tortured and then executed, and Shinji/Zouken would consider her gone. However, Sakura would feel bad for her friend, and would send evidence to prove her innocence to Nero anonymously. This would result in Nero working out that she had been framed (which hadn't been Sakura's intention), and Zouken would force Sakura to admit her guilt, which she would agree to do to protect Shinji.

Nero would then free Rider, and offer her the chance to punish her fake accuser, and then retain her as a slave. Rider, who would be too angry at Sakura's betrayal to think clearly about it, gladly accepts, and Sakura is taken, in chains, to Nero's torture dungeon, where Rider would await her. Rider would then start torturing her very harshly, talking about betrayal etc., and gaining lots of pleasure from torturing someone who had caused her so much suffering. After a while, though, she'd start to wonder why Sakura had betrayed her like that, and would start questioning her (under torture) about her motivations and how she'd done it. Of course, she would get non-sensical answers and, eventually, Sakura would break and admit she wasn't responsible. Rider isn't sure if this is true, but still feels guilty that she might have tortured an innocent friend, and starts questioning her more gently and kindly, and investigating herself. Eventually, she's convinced that Sakura is telling the truth, but she doesn't have enough evidence to bring down a powerful family. So, she instead takes Sakura as her slave (freeing her from the Matous), and offers to let Sakura punish her. Sakura refuses, not wanting to perpetuate the cycle of revenge and knowing Rider had suffered already, but they gradually develop into a sexual relationship, with plenty of BDSM involved.

As for Zouken and Shinji, I expect they'd get their comeuppance at the hands of Rin, when she realises what they put her sister through....

Quote
As for rider's torturer I have no idea

Yeah....

Well, I'd think a guy would make sense, because that makes it different from Sakura's torture, and allows her to be raped.

We need to do a bit of world-building here, I think, to work out who will take what roles. In particular we need someone who would be liable to support Nero and also inclined towards being a torturer....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 04, 2013, 05:33:39 PM
I skimmed the idea it looks generally ok.as for a male torturer I have no idea
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 06:03:03 PM
I skimmed the idea it looks generally ok.

OK, good.

Quote
as for a male torturer I have no idea

No, nor me, that's why we need to work out the world better.

I also had the thought that there would basically be two levels of slave. One would be normal slaves, who are prisoners of war, people who were sold into slavery (to pay off debts etc.) and possibly minor to moderate criminals. They can be forced to work, but they have at least basic rights, so you can't just torture them for the sake of it and so on. The second would be serious criminals who have been sold as slaves as an alternative to long-term imprisonment or execution. They have no rights, can be killed for whatever reason, forced to participate in gladatorial games (although normal slaves and even free people can volunteer) and so on. They don't tend to have particularly nice fates, since they're the only people who can be legally treated in this way. Since they're criminals, they also can't be freed without Nero's permission (unlike normal slaves, who can be freed at the whim of their master).

Sakura would nominally be in the second category (after the whole thing was set up) but, of course, Rider would be kind to her and, eventually, would probably find a way to free her.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 04, 2013, 06:20:23 PM
If it was a frame up then I would think Sakura be given her freedom
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 06:25:18 PM
If it was a frame up then I would think Sakura be given her freedom

Well, that's assuming they can prove it to Nero. Rider might accept her innocence, but if she reports it to Nero and Nero isn't convinced (which she might not be, since Zouken and Shinji would deny it), Sakura might end up getting taken off her and punished a different way. If she acts like she still thinks Sakura is guilty until she can conclusively prove Shinji or Zouken are responsible, then Nero will leave her alone and Sakura will be safe.

Plus, giving Sakura her freedom means she returns to the Matou family, which isn't good at all. Remaining as Rider's slave is actually a lot better for her.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 04, 2013, 06:28:29 PM
Contrived that basically fails Nero's character as well
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 06:30:22 PM
Contrived that basically fails Nero's character as well

Why does it?

And, like I said, aside from Nero there is also the fact that freeing her means she's a Matou again, unless the Matou family is brought down. Which is not good news for her at all.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 04, 2013, 06:31:40 PM
Nero prizes people before the nobility that's why
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 06:34:31 PM
Nero prizes people before the nobility that's why

Well, sure, but she still is going to need some level of proof before having them punished. Even if she might free Sakura, she won't remain with Rider and would return to the Matous, who do not treat her particularly nicely.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 04, 2013, 09:07:47 PM
Her soldiers can get that and in the meantime Sakura would be confined to a  state room
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 09:27:20 PM
Her soldiers can get that and in the meantime Sakura would be confined to a  state room

Well, OK, fair enough. I guess Shirou could be involved somewhere, too.

We still need to design the setting, though, so we can work out what roles the others will have.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 04, 2013, 09:52:28 PM
I doubt it, logically  shirou would be in Saber's country working toward becoming a knight or having become one
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 10:01:45 PM
I doubt it, logically  shirou would be in Saber's country working toward becoming a knight or having become one

Saber's country?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 05, 2013, 12:40:28 AM
Yes, other kings have countries
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 05, 2013, 01:05:09 AM
Yes, other kings have countries

Well, OK, then....

I'm just wondering where to take it from there, once Sakura is safely in Nero's hands. Obviously she's not going to end up as Rider's slave in this scenario, but if Shirou isn't around I'm not sure who she'll end up with or what will happen.

Also, if Shirou is in Saber's kingdom, does that mean he won't get to meet Sakura or Rin?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 05, 2013, 02:28:52 AM
Depends on what shirou does
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 05, 2013, 03:12:22 AM
Depends on what shirou does

Well, yes, true.

What relationship does Saber's kingdom have to Nero's?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 05, 2013, 10:37:21 PM
Much the pseudo historical kind, enemies but not yet at war, Rome is big and Briton smaller
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 05, 2013, 10:41:23 PM
Much the pseudo historical kind, enemies but not yet at war, Rome is big and Briton smaller

Ah, OK. So, Shirou could visit in a way that didn't involve him trying to kill people...?

Anyway, we need to work out more about the setting, or you need to explain it further, so we can resolve who would torture Rider and also what the other characters will be up to (Rin in particular).
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 05, 2013, 11:12:20 PM
Well it figured three kingdoms Nero has one, saber another and Gilgamesh the third
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 05, 2013, 11:30:14 PM
Well it figured three kingdoms Nero has one, saber another and Gilgamesh the third

Hmm, yeah, that figures. Would Saber and Gil be at war, then?

I'm trying to work out who could be Nero's chief torturer, but it's difficult to think of anyone who would likely be in that role. Is there any Tsuki character who fits?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 05, 2013, 11:34:56 PM
Possibly and no, Gil has a strong army so out right war is a bad call
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 05, 2013, 11:59:49 PM
Possibly

Possibly to what?

Quote
and no, Gil has a strong army so out right war is a bad call

Ah, OK.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 06, 2013, 12:02:54 AM
Possibly a tsukihime character who fits
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 06, 2013, 12:07:16 AM
Possibly a tsukihime character who fits

Who?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 06, 2013, 12:14:16 AM
Akiha might, or maybe kohaku
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 06, 2013, 12:16:19 AM
Akiha might, or maybe kohaku

Hmm, possibly. Any guys who could do it? I'd rather it be a guy, although it doesn't have to be if there really isn't one available.

I also think Caster is a possibility if we're going for girls, and she is probably a better choice because of her magic.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 06, 2013, 12:22:29 AM
No guy I can think of
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 06, 2013, 12:25:29 AM
No guy I can think of

Ah, OK....

Well, like I said, a guy would be preferable, but I'm also struggling to think of a guy who would be likely to be Nero's torturer. Shinji might, I guess, but he's already got a role in this set-up. Well, unless we add some desire on his part to have fun with Rider to the reasoning for framing her....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 06, 2013, 12:34:52 AM
Eww, no
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 06, 2013, 12:36:14 AM
Eww, no

OK, fair enough.

What about Caster, then? Her magic would make things interesting....

Also, does this world have things like electricity, or does it have Roman-era tech (and, thus, torture devices)?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 06, 2013, 12:43:08 AM
Hadn't decided and caster works fine
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 06, 2013, 12:50:56 AM
Hadn't decided

Ah, OK.

Well, I would rather modern tech, it gives more options....

Quote
and caster works fine

She might be a good choice, then. Like I said, I'd rather a guy (because a guy can more easily gain pleasure from penetrating her), but I don't think either of us can think of a viable option.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 06, 2013, 12:59:54 AM
Split the difference and fo with stylized modern technology
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 06, 2013, 01:08:02 AM
Split the difference and fo with stylized modern technology

What do you mean by "stylised modern technology"?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 06, 2013, 01:14:53 AM
Technology meant to be patterned after old stuff, light street lights looking like torches and so on
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 06, 2013, 01:16:28 AM
Technology meant to be patterned after old stuff, light street lights looking like torches and so on

Ah, OK.

Yeah, that works. The stuff I'm mainly thinking of is stuff like tasers and electric shock batons/cattle prods for use in torture, anyway....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 06, 2013, 06:47:47 PM
well they could have that stuff i guess.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 06, 2013, 07:22:30 PM
well they could have that stuff i guess.

Well, yeah, it figures.

Plus, Caster would use her magic to ensure the prisoner suffers as much as possible. Additionally, because Caster and Rider are sadists, they would gain sexual pleasure from torture (which is why Caster took the job, mainly), and would force the prisoner to perform degrading sex acts.

In Sakura's case, I had the idea that she'd be brought to the dungeon fully clothed, and that Rider would then force her to perform a strip-tease whilst taunting her about all the horrible things she was going to do to her, and also telling Sakura how horribly she herself had suffered as a result of Sakura's frame-up.

I also thought that Rider might taunt Sakura about how, instead of killing her, she was going to keep her as a sex slave once she was bored of torturing her, and how much she likes the thought of having a girl who she can do anything she likes to, but that she wouldn't usually be willing to treat a person in that way.

I do wonder how it should end, with regards to Sakura and particularly her relationship with Rider. I think she would forgive Rider for what she did, because Sakura had admitted betraying her and getting her tortured, but I don't think Rider would forgive herself, particularly once she knew that Sakura was the one who had got her freed in the first place. I don't think we can really just leave it there, but I'm not sure where to take it.

I also wonder how Rider would get the full details out of Sakura. The initial confession that she wasn't responsible would come as the result of heavy torture, but once she's got that she'll be a lot more reluctant to hurt Sakura. At the same time, though, she would know Sakura was covering up for someone (probably Shinji or Zouken) and would want the full truth from her, not to mention that she needs something more than someone saying "it wasn't me" to convince Nero to even investigate it. So, it's possible that, to put pressure on Sakura, she'd be forced to threaten her with more torture (which Sakura would definitely not want), or just point out that, if she doesn't tell the full truth, Nero will probably order her torture to be continued.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 06, 2013, 07:59:47 PM
Quote
would then force her to perform a strip-tease

seriously out of character for the job.

Quote
because Sakura had admitted betraying her

that contradicts previous statements.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 06, 2013, 08:22:04 PM
Quote
would then force her to perform a strip-tease

seriously out of character for the job.

I'm talking about Rider here, not Caster. Rider isn't employed by Nero as a torturer, she is torturing Sakura to punish her for framing Rider. And, in any case, why is it "out of character"? Humiliating the victim by stripping them or forcing them to strip is pretty much standard procedure for torturers, even aside from the fact that I want this to actually be erotic.

Quote
Quote
because Sakura had admitted betraying her

that contradicts previous statements.

No, it doesn't. I said she'd admitted to it, not that she had actually done it....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 06, 2013, 08:37:14 PM
the tease part.

and ah, i see, my mistake
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 06, 2013, 08:49:20 PM
the tease part.

It's not strictly part of the job, no, but it doesn't conflict with doing the job either, particularly since it's humiliating for the victim (more so than just being made to strip). Plus, like I said, Rider isn't Nero's employee, Nero has merely given her permission to implement Sakura's punishment, in whatever way she desires.

Quote
and ah, i see, my mistake

Yeah, exactly. The point is not that she's guilty, but that she admitted it and, thus, cannot really blame Rider for assuming it to be the truth.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 06, 2013, 09:49:05 PM
I guess? personally i think that idea is covered.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 06, 2013, 09:54:31 PM
I guess? personally i think that idea is covered.

What do you mean? We've only written out one scene so far, and we don't have anything else to talk about....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 06, 2013, 10:37:33 PM
think of others in the setting that are different from the previous scene is what i meant.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 06, 2013, 10:43:09 PM
think of others in the setting that are different from the previous scene is what i meant.

Ah, OK.

Well, yeah, I'd agree that the basic design for that scene is completed (although we've not actually thought out any details of how the scene would go yet, and I suspect that's something I'm better at doing than you are...), but I do think we need to consider where Sakura and Rider go and how their relationship develops after the point where Sakura is confined to the palace whilst Nero investigates. These scenes aren't going to be the only involvement Rider and Sakura have in the entire plot....

We should definitely also consider what everyone else is doing, though, although there aren't that many more I can really help with.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 06, 2013, 10:56:26 PM
the others i would think are more important at the moment.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 06, 2013, 11:05:35 PM
the others i would think are more important at the moment.

Well, possibly, but Sakura is the one I am best at working stuff out for....

We should work out Rin and Shirou, though, at least.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 06, 2013, 11:20:50 PM
dunno about Rin, she can fit anywhere.

shirou would be in saber's group, I see him lancelot-ing it up
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 06, 2013, 11:25:35 PM
dunno about Rin, she can fit anywhere.

Well, she should certainly still be Sakura's sister. Which means probably a noble in Nero's country. She can't really have too much direct influence with Nero, though, or else she'd have got Sakura's case looked into more closely initially.

Quote
shirou would be in saber's group,

Yeah, sure, but it would be nice for him to at least meet Sakura, Rin etc.

Quote
I see him lancelot-ing it up

What?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 07, 2013, 12:00:29 AM
Quote
a noble

i'd like to have that not the case

Quote
Yeah, sure, but it would be nice for him to at least meet Sakura, Rin etc.

that can happen

Quote
What?

questing, fighting, generally being awesome, and maybe hitting on saber subtly
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 07, 2013, 12:04:08 AM
Quote
a noble

i'd like to have that not the case

Well, OK.

My main question is how Sakura ended up with the Matous, if the Tohsaka family aren't nobles....

Quote
Quote
Yeah, sure, but it would be nice for him to at least meet Sakura, Rin etc.

that can happen

Well, I'd like to see him get to know them, definitely. It seems silly to keep the two parts basically seperate, too.

Quote
Quote
What?

questing, fighting, generally being awesome, and maybe hitting on saber subtly

Lol, I see.

Well, it would make sense for one of his quests to perhaps take him in Nero's direction.

Hitting on Saber sounds a bit un-Shiroulike, though....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 07, 2013, 12:10:32 AM
Quote
My main question is how Sakura ended up with the Matous, if the Tohsaka family aren't nobles....

were but aren't anymore

Quote
Well, I'd like to see him get to know them, definitely. It seems silly to keep the two parts basically seperate, too.

what?

Quote
Hitting on Saber sounds a bit un-Shiroulike, though....

I said subtly, gestures, actions stuff like that, it's old romance rather then our current no subtly "hey baby nice shoes, wanna fuck" type stuff.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 07, 2013, 12:32:52 AM
Quote
My main question is how Sakura ended up with the Matous, if the Tohsaka family aren't nobles....

were but aren't anymore

Ah, OK.

How would Sakura have ended up with the Matous, anyway?

Quote
Quote
Well, I'd like to see him get to know them, definitely. It seems silly to keep the two parts basically seperate, too.

what?

Nero's and Saber's.

Quote
Quote
Hitting on Saber sounds a bit un-Shiroulike, though....

I said subtly, gestures, actions stuff like that, it's old romance rather then our current no subtly "hey baby nice shoes, wanna fuck" type stuff.

I see....

Still sounds rather unlike Shirou. He always seems very oblivious to any form of sexuality or romance....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 07, 2013, 12:43:03 AM
Quote
How would Sakura have ended up with the Matous, anyway?

dunno

Quote
Nero's and Saber's.

what do you mean by parts?

Quote
Still sounds rather unlike Shirou. He always seems very oblivious to any form of sexuality or romance....

it fits, it wouldn't be apparent to himself right away, that's why it would be incidental
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 07, 2013, 01:19:21 AM
Quote
How would Sakura have ended up with the Matous, anyway?

dunno

Well, that is something that needs working out....

Quote
Quote
Nero's and Saber's.

what do you mean by parts?

Well, the parts of the story involving them and their countrymen.

Quote
Quote
Still sounds rather unlike Shirou. He always seems very oblivious to any form of sexuality or romance....

it fits, it wouldn't be apparent to himself right away, that's why it would be incidental

Ah, I see.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 07, 2013, 01:32:05 AM
i see, well ok then.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 07, 2013, 01:32:35 AM
OK what?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 07, 2013, 01:44:09 AM
your explanation, I understand what you meant.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 07, 2013, 01:47:23 AM
Ah, OK, good.

Well, then, what should we discuss?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 07, 2013, 02:19:22 AM
whose with gilgamesh
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 07, 2013, 02:44:23 AM
whose with gilgamesh

Hmm, good question....

For that matter, we presumably need to work out who is with Saber as well.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 07, 2013, 08:02:57 PM
I assume shirou, lancelot, gawian, Merlin and probably Lancer and bazzet.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 07, 2013, 08:10:24 PM
I assume shirou, lancelot, gawian, Merlin and probably Lancer and bazzet.

Well, yeah, the first four make sense, and Lancer and Bazett seem fine. Is that enough people, though? Will all the Tsuki characters be around in this one?

And, yeah, we do also need to work out Gil's allies. I'm not sure who would make sense there.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 07, 2013, 08:19:44 PM
I was aimming fate, at least to start out anyways.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 07, 2013, 08:45:28 PM
I was aimming fate, at least to start out anyways.

Ah, OK.

Well, I'm not sure who of the Fate characters would make sense in Gil's world, particularly from a porn viewpoint. I guess Kotomine fits there, but I'm not sure who else....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 07, 2013, 09:04:57 PM
wasn't thinking porn, enkidu (female) makes sense and caren probably.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 07, 2013, 09:09:32 PM
wasn't thinking porn, enkidu (female) makes sense and caren probably.

Well, porn is a large part of the point of all this, although I guess Gil's country doesn't need that.

And, yeah, I guess Caren makes sense, as Kotomine's daughter. Although she is a pretty decent person, overall.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 07, 2013, 09:28:35 PM
i think that's fine.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 07, 2013, 09:35:00 PM
What, just those?

And, if you're OK with that, then what should we work on next?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 07, 2013, 09:42:12 PM
particulars like big events.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 07, 2013, 10:15:55 PM
particulars like big events.

Yeah, that makes sense.

So, aside from the bit with Sakura and Rider, what else should we have happen? I think Rin has to at some point find out about Sakura, and try to rescue her or reconcile with her (depending on her situation at that point). We also presumably need to consider where Toshi fits into all of this....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 07, 2013, 10:28:50 PM
not sure, he'll likely either team up with saber or else wise plow nero or something...
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 07, 2013, 10:44:01 PM
not sure, he'll likely either team up with saber or else wise plow nero or something...

Well, it makes sense for him to be with Saber, but that does mean he wouldn't really get much sex. Also, wouldn't he object to fighting Nero? She's not a bad person, after all.

Would it be possible for Shirou or someone else to be sent by Saber to Nero to negotiate an anti-Gil alliance?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 07, 2013, 10:51:51 PM
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Well, it makes sense for him to be with Saber, but that does mean he wouldn't really get much sex. Also, wouldn't he object to fighting Nero? She's not a bad person, after all.

depends on the women around, and no he objects to killing people or hurting the innocent.

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Would it be possible for Shirou or someone else to be sent by Saber to Nero to negotiate an anti-Gil alliance?

in theory
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 07, 2013, 11:04:48 PM
depends on the women around,

Well, yeah, but Saber's country doesn't seem to have any, aside from Bazett who I assume is with Lancer....

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and no he objects to killing people or hurting the innocent.

Wars do tend to result in people dying, and I'd call most of Nero's people pretty innocent, really....

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Would it be possible for Shirou or someone else to be sent by Saber to Nero to negotiate an anti-Gil alliance?

in theory

Well, is there any reason why it wouldn't happen, particularly if Toshi were to suggest it?

Also, as a more general thing, do you intend for Toshi's Dark side to show up at any point in F&F? If so, arcs with him are probably ones I'll be good at writing.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 07, 2013, 11:12:08 PM
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Well, yeah, but Saber's country doesn't seem to have any, aside from Bazett who I assume is with Lancer....

at the moment

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Wars do tend to result in people dying, and I'd call most of Nero's people pretty innocent, really....

war is war, they aren't at war however

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Well, is there any reason why it wouldn't happen, particularly if Toshi were to suggest it?

he's not the type to do that, if asked perhaps but not otherwise.

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Also, as a more general thing, do you intend for Toshi's Dark side to show up at any point in F&F? If so, arcs with him are probably ones I'll be good at writing.

he's fairly serious so it's hard to fit him in anywhere. I do intend to include him but not arc wise.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 07, 2013, 11:21:04 PM
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Well, yeah, but Saber's country doesn't seem to have any, aside from Bazett who I assume is with Lancer....

at the moment

What do you mean, "at the moment"? We've covered basically everyone in Fate already....

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Wars do tend to result in people dying, and I'd call most of Nero's people pretty innocent, really....

war is war, they aren't at war however

No, but fighting Nero would imply such....

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Well, is there any reason why it wouldn't happen, particularly if Toshi were to suggest it?

he's not the type to do that, if asked perhaps but not otherwise.

Oh, OK.

Well, getting it to happen would be a good idea.

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Also, as a more general thing, do you intend for Toshi's Dark side to show up at any point in F&F? If so, arcs with him are probably ones I'll be good at writing.

he's fairly serious so it's hard to fit him in anywhere. I do intend to include him but not arc wise.

How is he "serious"? He seemed like he'd work fine for porn to me.

And, if you don't intend to include him "arc-wise", how do you intend to include him? As individual scenes?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 07, 2013, 11:39:14 PM
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What do you mean, "at the moment"? We've covered basically everyone in Fate already....

fan characters and the companions are outstanding as or yet.

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No, but fighting Nero would imply such....

a skirmish is not a war.

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How is he "serious"?

not sure what you are asking

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And, if you don't intend to include him "arc-wise", how do you intend to include him? As individual scenes?

contextually
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 07, 2013, 11:45:04 PM
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What do you mean, "at the moment"? We've covered basically everyone in Fate already....

fan characters and the companions are outstanding as or yet.

Well, which fan characters did you intend to include?

As for the companions, do we even know which one will be around...?

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No, but fighting Nero would imply such....

a skirmish is not a war.

No, true, but even so people will still die....

Although, having people captured by Caren might be interesting, since she's rather sadistic, and Gil won't care how captives are handled.

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How is he "serious"?

not sure what you are asking

Well, in what way does him appearing make the story serious?

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And, if you don't intend to include him "arc-wise", how do you intend to include him? As individual scenes?

contextually

What?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 07, 2013, 11:51:33 PM
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Well, which fan characters did you intend to include?

Archerko or emilya come to mind

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As for the companions, do we even know which one will be around...?

one of the ten and judging by the characters here, the tsukihime girls make sense.

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Well, in what way does him appearing make the story serious?

he doesn't show up randomly, he has to be logically inserted. He's serious guy
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 08, 2013, 12:01:48 AM
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Well, which fan characters did you intend to include?

Archerko or emilya come to mind

Well, Archerko makes sense. Emilya I'm not so sure about, how would she end up in this world?

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As for the companions, do we even know which one will be around...?

one of the ten and judging by the characters here, the tsukihime girls make sense.

Well, possibly. Wouldn't they just be with Toshi, though?

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Well, in what way does him appearing make the story serious?

he doesn't show up randomly, he has to be logically inserted. He's serious guy

Well, what sort of "logical" insertion would be possible? And, I thought he was generally less inhibited than Toshi, which sounds like he'd be less serious.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 08, 2013, 12:09:39 AM
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Well, Archerko makes sense. Emilya I'm not so sure about, how would she end up in this world?

world hopping

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Well, possibly. Wouldn't they just be with Toshi, though?

no problem with that

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Well, what sort of "logical" insertion would be possible?

he needs to be cursed

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And, I thought he was generally less inhibited than Toshi

his motivations are different

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which sounds like he'd be less serious.

nope
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 08, 2013, 12:18:45 AM
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Well, Archerko makes sense. Emilya I'm not so sure about, how would she end up in this world?

world hopping

Well, I guess that's possible.

Wouldn't she seek out Sakura, though?

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Well, possibly. Wouldn't they just be with Toshi, though?

no problem with that

No, true.

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Well, what sort of "logical" insertion would be possible?

he needs to be cursed

How would that happen?

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And, I thought he was generally less inhibited than Toshi

his motivations are different

In what way?

All I remember is him being more liable to do things like seek revenge and commit rape....

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which sounds like he'd be less serious.

nope

Why?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 08, 2013, 12:28:30 AM
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Wouldn't she seek out Sakura, though?

possibly

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How would that happen?

well a cursed weapon or the grail mud or some other curse like a spell

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In what way?

he's more, selfish

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All I remember is him being more liable to do things like seek revenge and commit rape....

former yes, latter no

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Why?

he's just serious in a different way, not a different character.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 08, 2013, 12:32:01 AM
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Wouldn't she seek out Sakura, though?

possibly

Well, It would make sense.

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How would that happen?

well a cursed weapon or the grail mud or some other curse like a spell

Ah, OK.

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In what way?

he's more, selfish

Ah, OK. That's where I got the "rape" thing from, I think.

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All I remember is him being more liable to do things like seek revenge and commit rape....

former yes, latter no

Well, I remember you being OK with him raping people before (although that was after they did something to him...).

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Why?

he's just serious in a different way, not a different character.

I see....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 08, 2013, 12:40:24 AM
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Well, I remember you being OK with him raping people before (although that was after they did something to him...).

the difference being that he doesn't do it unprovoked
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 08, 2013, 12:45:56 AM
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Well, I remember you being OK with him raping people before (although that was after they did something to him...).

the difference being that he doesn't do it unprovoked

Ah, OK, fair enough.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 08, 2013, 12:54:46 AM
as for the adventures and conflicts well there's a difference between border issues and war, i doubt nero's and saber's country would war.

gilgamesh is another story, i'd see him sending envoys or war parties around
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 08, 2013, 12:56:49 AM
as for the adventures and conflicts well there's a difference between border issues and war, i doubt nero's and saber's country would war.

Yeah, that definitely makes sense. They have no real reason to fight each other.

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gilgamesh is another story, i'd see him sending envoys or war parties around

Well, I think the second is more likely, honestly. Although in the case of Saber's country I think he'd have sent envoys at first, asking her to submit to him and to marry him.

Honestly, I think an eventual declaration of war is most likely, but I dunno how Saber will fight that off, or how it will fit with the story here.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 08, 2013, 01:20:20 AM
it won't exactltly, just pairing up characters next would be ideal
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 08, 2013, 01:32:47 AM
it won't exactltly

What won't what?

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just pairing up characters next would be ideal

Hmm, OK.

Well, I'm not sure about Shirou here. I think Saber is maybe too obvious, but I dunno if there's anyone else to pair Saber with, or who else we'd pair Shirou with. Sakura could end up with Rider, Shirou or possibly Emilya (or some combination of those, since Rider would probably be OK with a threesome...). Rin I also don't know, we need to work out her situation more before I can say who to pair her with. Archer would be obvious but, again, possibly too obvious.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 08, 2013, 01:38:22 AM
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What won't what?

the war bit won't relate to the main story

saber and shirou do work, sakura with rider isn't optimal but works

archer and rin works fine.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 08, 2013, 01:47:16 AM
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What won't what?

the war bit won't relate to the main story

Hmm, why? Would Gil not be fighting Saber for some reason?

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saber and shirou do work

Sure it works, but I think it's a bit obvious.

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sakura with rider isn't optimal but works

Why isn't it "optimal", and what would be (with regards to Sakura and Rider)?

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archer and rin works fine.

Yeah, it does, but we basically always do that pairing.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 08, 2013, 01:56:01 AM
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Hmm, why? Would Gil not be fighting Saber for some reason?

he would it just wouldn't be the main story

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Why isn't it "optimal", and what would be

not sure, ideal male partners for each, it's more not optimal because it's typical

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Yeah, it does, but we basically always do that pairing.

they are very good together.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 08, 2013, 04:19:23 PM
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Hmm, why? Would Gil not be fighting Saber for some reason?

he would it just wouldn't be the main story

Well, OK, what will be the "main story"?

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Why isn't it "optimal", and what would be

not sure, ideal male partners for each

Like who? There aren't many guys around....

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it's more not optimal because it's typical

Yes, but so is Shirou x Saber and Rin x Archer....

Not that I mind changing it if there is a better option, mind.

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Yeah, it does, but we basically always do that pairing.

they are very good together.

Well, yes, true, but variety is always good.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 08, 2013, 04:24:12 PM
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Well, OK, what will be the "main story"?

I assume the sex and the build up to it

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Like who? There aren't many guys around....

you have a point

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Well, yes, true, but variety is always good.

in their case not so much.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 08, 2013, 04:28:29 PM
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Well, OK, what will be the "main story"?

I assume the sex and the build up to it

What sex? So far the only thing we've worked out is the stuff involving Rider....

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Like who? There aren't many guys around....

you have a point

Yeah, exactly. I don't mind an alternative if one can be found (although Rider pairing with Sakura naturally leads to more BDSM with Rider asking to be punished for what she did), but I can't think of anyone else, aside from pairing Shirou with Sakura.

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Well, yes, true, but variety is always good.

in their case not so much.

Well, OK, fair enough.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 08, 2013, 04:35:26 PM
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What sex? So far the only thing we've worked out is the stuff involving Rider....

never said we've worked it out, I just said that would be the main story
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 08, 2013, 04:37:36 PM
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What sex? So far the only thing we've worked out is the stuff involving Rider....

never said we've worked it out, I just said that would be the main story

Ah, OK, fair enough. I guess we need to work that out, then.

Whose sex are we talking about here? Toshi's?

Also, with Dark Toshi, what sort of things would cause him to commit rape or to torture someone, just for future reference?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 08, 2013, 04:41:59 PM
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Whose sex are we talking about here? Toshi's?

partly, mostly the other sex though

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Also, with Dark Toshi, what sort of things would cause him to commit rape or to torture someone, just for future reference?

i'll explain this over skype
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 08, 2013, 04:44:27 PM
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Whose sex are we talking about here? Toshi's?

partly, mostly the other sex though

Hmm, OK.

Well, we need to work some more stuff out, then. With Sakura and Rider, we need to work out where they'll go from the point where Sakura is being confined by Nero. Probably Rider would make every effort to apologise to her, and try to compensate her for what happened, resulting eventually in a relationship. With Rin, I think she should be searching for Sakura, and possibly meet Archer on the way. Shirou and Saber I dunno, and I'm not sure what other couples will be here.

Also, Shinji and Zouken are likely to end up dying horribly (Shinji at least possibly at the hands of Caster, although I dunno if you want to show any of that...).

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Also, with Dark Toshi, what sort of things would cause him to commit rape or to torture someone, just for future reference?

i'll explain this over skype

OK, fair enough.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 08, 2013, 05:01:16 PM
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we need to work out where they'll go from the point where Sakura is being confined by Nero.

we need to figure out the others first

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Also, Shinji and Zouken are likely to end up dying horribly (Shinji at least possibly at the hands of Caster, although I dunno if you want to show any of that...).

pointless to show here

I would assume shirou with saber, archer with rin, possibly caster with someone.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 08, 2013, 05:05:44 PM
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we need to work out where they'll go from the point where Sakura is being confined by Nero.

we need to figure out the others first

Why? We've already worked out the pairings....

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Also, Shinji and Zouken are likely to end up dying horribly (Shinji at least possibly at the hands of Caster, although I dunno if you want to show any of that...).

pointless to show here

Well, OK, fair enough.

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I would assume shirou with saber, archer with rin, possibly caster with someone.

Yeah, along with Rider x Sakura, of course. Pairing Caster up would be good, although I'm not sure who with.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 08, 2013, 05:14:15 PM
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Why? We've already worked out the pairings....

i mean the events happening during the time where sakura's things is going on
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 08, 2013, 05:55:06 PM
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Why? We've already worked out the pairings....

i mean the events happening during the time where sakura's things is going on

Well, yes, but Sakura's thing isn't finished with yet. Like I said, we still need to free her from Nero and pair her up with Rider.

Also, who should we pair Caster with...?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 08, 2013, 06:19:06 PM
we have most of sakura's thing except the final resolution, which is being with rider

and i have no idea about caster, guess nero maybe.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 08, 2013, 06:24:26 PM
we have most of sakura's thing except the final resolution, which is being with rider

Well, we have a large part of it, but we don't have an ending or anything to lead up to that ending. We left it with Sakura still under house arrest in Nero's palace. She needs to get freed, make up with Rider and start fucking her....

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and i have no idea about caster, guess nero maybe.

Well, it's possible, although I dunno how Nero would feel about her wife being someone who gets pleasure from torturing criminals....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 08, 2013, 06:58:03 PM
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Well, we have a large part of it, but we don't have an ending or anything to lead up to that ending. We left it with Sakura still under house arrest in Nero's palace. She needs to get freed, make up with Rider and start fucking her....

i think we can assume that happens.

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Well, it's possible, although I dunno how Nero would feel about her wife being someone who gets pleasure from torturing criminals....

true...
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 08, 2013, 07:16:33 PM
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Well, we have a large part of it, but we don't have an ending or anything to lead up to that ending. We left it with Sakura still under house arrest in Nero's palace. She needs to get freed, make up with Rider and start fucking her....

i think we can assume that happens.

Well, of course it happens, but the question is how, and what sex scenes it leads to.

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Well, it's possible, although I dunno how Nero would feel about her wife being someone who gets pleasure from torturing criminals....

true...

Yeah....

I would like to pair Caster up, though, either with a willing victim or someone who will switch and dominate her.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 08, 2013, 07:21:47 PM
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Well, of course it happens, but the question is how, and what sex scenes it leads to.

given previous events i suspect some vanilla yuri

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I would like to pair Caster up, though, either with a willing victim or someone who will switch and dominate her.

other then toshi i can't see whom
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 08, 2013, 08:16:09 PM
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Well, of course it happens, but the question is how, and what sex scenes it leads to.

given previous events i suspect some vanilla yuri

I can definitely see Rider asking Sakura to punish her, though. She would feel very bad about what she did.

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I would like to pair Caster up, though, either with a willing victim or someone who will switch and dominate her.

other then toshi i can't see whom

Really, none of the girls fit?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 08, 2013, 08:39:45 PM
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I can definitely see Rider asking Sakura to punish her, though. She would feel very bad about what she did.

I don't think it fits the wind down

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Really, none of the girls fit?

not that i can see
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 08, 2013, 08:48:06 PM
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I can definitely see Rider asking Sakura to punish her, though. She would feel very bad about what she did.

I don't think it fits the wind down

What do you mean, "wind down"?

And, it does make sense given the context.

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Really, none of the girls fit?

not that i can see

Ah, OK....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 08, 2013, 09:24:55 PM
the tension is resolving, i don't think another bdsm scene fits that after all three of them in a row.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 08, 2013, 09:25:59 PM
the tension is resolving, i don't think another bdsm scene fits that after all three of them in a row.

Three? I only remember there being two....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 08, 2013, 09:47:06 PM
same principle
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 08, 2013, 09:52:21 PM
same principle

Well, not quite, two is less than three....

And, they wouldn't be "in a row". For a start, I would expect Rider's torture of Sakura to be quite prolonged (because it would take her a while to even start trying to get information as opposed to just hurting her) and, similarly, Caster's torture of Rider would be quite long (because it would take a few days for the evidence to get to Nero). But, there would be plenty of stuff in between.

I guess you do have a point to a certain extent, but a consensual BDSM scene between them would be nice.

Also, what stuff would you have in mind for Rider and Sakura's torture? Or do you want me to suggest stuff?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 08, 2013, 10:13:22 PM
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Also, what stuff would you have in mind for Rider and Sakura's torture? Or do you want me to suggest stuff?

I have enough of an idea
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 08, 2013, 10:19:04 PM
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Also, what stuff would you have in mind for Rider and Sakura's torture? Or do you want me to suggest stuff?

I have enough of an idea

Well, what are you thinking of?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 08, 2013, 10:23:13 PM
standard torture scene, there's a few that i know how to write.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 08, 2013, 10:28:09 PM
standard torture scene, there's a few that i know how to write.

Well, what do you have in mind here?

I mean, it might just be "standard torture scene" for you, but I am actually trying to make this something I find erotic....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 09, 2013, 01:35:01 AM
I guess, well the exactly elements are there but i'm not sure what you directly find erotic
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 09, 2013, 01:50:47 AM
I guess, well the exactly elements are there

What do you mean?

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but i'm not sure what you directly find erotic

Well, torture, but with a sexual element, generally (so, things like nudity, abuse of the sexual organs etc.). Most stuff works except for things that cause significant damage to the body (i.e. I'm not into Guro), but if it's done in a more sexual manner it's a lot hotter.

And, also, we should get back to working out the general plot.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 09, 2013, 02:10:38 AM
i'll deal with it on skype, as for the main plot we need to decide the order in which these places are shown
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 09, 2013, 02:21:42 AM
i'll deal with it on skype

OK.

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as for the main plot we need to decide the order in which these places are shown

Hmm, well, it depends where Toshi shows up, I would imagine. Although I suspect most of the focus will be on Saber and Nero's kingdoms, since Gil's kingdom doesn't really have much of interest that I can see, either in terms of comedy or porn (at least unless Caren gets hold of some captives or something).
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 09, 2013, 08:06:25 PM
well that depends on which would be more fun then, i'll flip a coin.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 09, 2013, 08:08:38 PM
well that depends on which would be more fun then, i'll flip a coin.

Well, I think actually working it out logically makes more sense than flipping a coin....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 09, 2013, 08:20:10 PM
there's no real logic to appearing by magic though
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 09, 2013, 08:25:33 PM
there's no real logic to appearing by magic though

Well, no, true, but we can still decide where he arrives based on what works best.

I suspect, actually, that it might have to be Saber's Kingdom, because I don't imagine him being OK with Rider or Sakura being tortured, regardless of what they were claimed to have done.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 09, 2013, 10:09:29 PM
you have a point.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 09, 2013, 10:10:53 PM
you have a point.

Yeah, definitely.

How are we going to organise this, actually? Is Toshi going to visit that kingdom at some point, or will it be entirely shown in interludes?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 10, 2013, 01:40:36 AM
eventually he will but those scenes will be interludes.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 10, 2013, 02:04:37 AM
eventually he will but those scenes will be interludes.

Yeah, that definitely makes sense.

That does imply, though, that the Rider/Sakura torture stuff will happen earlier on in the story, with a substantial amount of time after it. Which also means that there would likely be more than one Rider/Sakura sex scene after it (ideally at least one would be BDSM...).
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 10, 2013, 02:20:57 AM
it could happen
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 10, 2013, 02:26:54 AM
it could happen

Well, it would definitely make sense. We do need to work out what happens in the story more generally, though.

What do we have as a timeline so far?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 10, 2013, 02:42:28 AM
Just rider's bit
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 10, 2013, 03:11:57 AM
Just rider's bit

Yeah, OK.

We need to work out a timeline etc. for what events will happen and when. We also need to work out what Rin is going to do. I would imagine it will involve finding and reconciling with Sakura at some point. Also, we need to work out what Archer's role is here (prior to getting into a relationship with Rin, I mean). Rin's servant is possible, but that would make a relationship a bit odd.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 10, 2013, 07:21:11 PM
I assume gladiator for archer, Rin I assume is a political so and so.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 10, 2013, 10:21:51 PM
Well, Archer being a Gladiator is possible, yes, but the question of how he became one (given that forcing slaves to fight to the death in the arena isn't very nice) is up for question. As for Rin, her being some sort of politician does make sense, but we do need to work out how that interacts with Sakura's plot, because I imagine she wouldn't react too well to being told that their estranged sister has been handed over to Rider to be brutally tortured....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 10, 2013, 10:24:57 PM
I imagine she would be looking into the issue and debating it with councils etcetera

archer i assume owes a debt or such
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 10, 2013, 10:36:48 PM
I imagine she would be looking into the issue and debating it with councils etcetera

What?

Rin doesn't seem the type to respond to her little sister being tortured by debating it with a council....

Quote
archer i assume owes a debt or such

Well, yeah, but owing a debt doesn't justify forcing someone to risk their life in the arena. So, unless he's volunteered to do it to pay off said debt, that is still pretty nasty (and, really, if you're allowing that then I don't see why killing or abusing slaves is any worse).
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 10, 2013, 11:32:29 PM
Quote
What?

Rin doesn't seem the type to respond to her little sister being tortured by debating it with a council....

working to get evidence

Quote
Well, yeah, but owing a debt doesn't justify forcing someone to risk their life in the arena.

it's what he's good at.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 10, 2013, 11:42:04 PM
Quote
What?

Rin doesn't seem the type to respond to her little sister being tortured by debating it with a council....

working to get evidence

Well, perhaps, but if she found out I would have thought she would at least try to stop the torture, which goes against the idea of the scene.

Quote
Quote
Well, yeah, but owing a debt doesn't justify forcing someone to risk their life in the arena.

it's what he's good at.

Well, like I said, it depends if he volunteered to do it or if he was forced to do it against his will. The first is fine, the second isn't.

Also, how would he end up paired with Rin in such a situation?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 10, 2013, 11:47:52 PM
Quote
Well, perhaps, but if she found out I would have thought she would at least try to stop the torture, which goes against the idea of the scene.

not directly, rin is aware that while torture is bad failing to prove the matous guilt is worse. i mean if she were to break into and steal sakura away she only succeeds in screwing her and sakura.

Quote
Also, how would he end up paired with Rin in such a situation?

becoming a famous and strong gladiator would make her take notice of him, i assume she would pay his debt after that
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 11, 2013, 12:06:09 AM
Quote
Well, perhaps, but if she found out I would have thought she would at least try to stop the torture, which goes against the idea of the scene.

not directly, rin is aware that while torture is bad failing to prove the matous guilt is worse. i mean if she were to break into and steal sakura away she only succeeds in screwing her and sakura.

Well, it's not so much proving their guilt as proving Sakura's innocence (or, at least, enough doubt about her guilt to stop Nero sanctioning the torture) but, yeah, I guess. Breaking in might save Sakura a lot of pain, but it will also make it a lot harder to get her free in the long term.

Having said that, though, if she has any real influence with Nero she could at least persuade her to stay the sentence until she had a chance to investigate further, which would obviously stop the scene going as planned.

I think the basic concept does work, though, and it would explain a lot of what Rin was up to. I think we should attempt to tie it in with her meeting Archer, though. Perhaps she seeks out his help or something (maybe she is initially planning a rescue, either to stop the torture or if she can't prove Sakura's innocence).

Quote
Quote
Also, how would he end up paired with Rin in such a situation?

becoming a famous and strong gladiator would make her take notice of him, i assume she would pay his debt after that

Ah, I see, so basically she buys him out of his debt because she likes him?

I would imagine it would need more than just "taking notice" of him for that, though....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 11, 2013, 12:17:10 AM
Quote
I would imagine it would need more than just "taking notice" of him for that, though....

a body guard for her investigations
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 11, 2013, 12:22:48 AM
Quote
I would imagine it would need more than just "taking notice" of him for that, though....

a body guard for her investigations

Yeah, that definitely works. I mean, I can't imagine Zouken is going to just let her condemn him to death, and I also imagine he's quite powerful.

I'm starting to come to more of an idea about how this should go. Obviously, Rin will start looking into it, but I would imagine that, when she hears that Sakura has confessed that her confession was false and Rider believed that, she'll want to talk to Sakura and Rider. Also, if Nero is investigating it herself, it makes sense for her to work with Rin in that respect. So, most likely, once Sakura has been set free of the torture she'll visit her and talk to her to try to work out what happened (Sakura will still be trying to cover for Shinji, at least).
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 11, 2013, 12:58:01 AM
I can't see nero personally investigating it

when would they talk to sakura exactly?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 11, 2013, 01:04:10 AM
I can't see nero personally investigating it

Well, no, I meant if she's assigned someone else to do so on her behalf.

Quote
when would they talk to sakura exactly?

Once she's been confined to the palace. It does depend on whether Rin or Archer can talk their way in, though....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 11, 2013, 01:59:44 AM
Quote
Once she's been confined to the palace. It does depend on whether Rin or Archer can talk their way in, though....

true enough though I wouldn't see it being too hard

Quote
Well, no, I meant if she's assigned someone else to do so on her behalf.

she'd definitely send someone.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 11, 2013, 02:12:40 AM
Quote
Once she's been confined to the palace. It does depend on whether Rin or Archer can talk their way in, though....

true enough though I wouldn't see it being too hard

No, particularly if she points out that she's Sakura's big sister. I mean, at that point Nero is likely to feel quite bad about what happened, so she's likely to be willing to give Sakura quite a lot of leeway when it comes to anything that might help comfort her.

Quote
Quote
Well, no, I meant if she's assigned someone else to do so on her behalf.

she'd definitely send someone.

Yeah, exactly. Then it makes sense for whoever she sent to discuss it with Rin and see what Rin has discovered.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 11, 2013, 06:12:10 AM
Okay then, also elf you want to chime in about shirtless archer here?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Elf on May 11, 2013, 06:28:46 AM
That we need more shirtless Archer?

That's always a good thing.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 11, 2013, 06:30:50 AM
Well more what they ought to be doing, by they I mean Rin and her man servant gladiator Archer the shirtless
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Elf on May 11, 2013, 06:33:47 AM
Well since this is porn . . .

In the first season of Sparticus there was a scene where the higher class Romans were watching the Gladiators having sex with their slaves like porn.

Nero likes pretty things, and Rin and Archer are all about contrasts.  She might be interested in a private performance before joining in.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 11, 2013, 06:36:00 AM
Neato, sounds good as a scene set up :3
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Elf on May 11, 2013, 06:37:17 AM
Especially since Rin and Archer need a little bit of prodding to get over their repression.  Nero could help with that.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 11, 2013, 06:40:09 AM
They do, who should toshi be with here then?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 11, 2013, 03:47:56 PM
Well since this is porn . . .

In the first season of Sparticus there was a scene where the higher class Romans were watching the Gladiators having sex with their slaves like porn.

Nero likes pretty things, and Rin and Archer are all about contrasts.  She might be interested in a private performance before joining in.

Well, this definitely does seem like a good idea, but I'm not sure how it would fit with what we've decided before. Rin isn't a slave, after all....

I guess it's possible Nero could ask for this in return for Rin being allowed in to see Sakura, though.

They do, who should toshi be with here then?

Hmm, well, would Sakura and Rider be possible? Presumably Toshi isn't going to hang around that long, so it would be better for him to pair up with someone who isn't going to be completely heartbroken when he disappears again, and having another partner will help with that.

Plus, Rider is going to need quite a bit of persuading to make her not feel completely shit about what she did, and to accept Sakura's forgiveness. And, of course, it gives Toshi an excuse to "punish" her....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 11, 2013, 06:38:31 PM
Quote
I guess it's possible Nero could ask for this in return for Rin being allowed in to see Sakura, though.

fair enough

Quote
Hmm, well, would Sakura and Rider be possible?

I suppose they could.

Quote
of course, it gives Toshi an excuse to "punish" her....

er, what?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 12, 2013, 01:36:36 AM
Quote
I guess it's possible Nero could ask for this in return for Rin being allowed in to see Sakura, though.

fair enough

Hmm, so you think that would work, then?

Quote
Quote
Hmm, well, would Sakura and Rider be possible?

I suppose they could.

Well, I think it figures that he'd get involved in their situation.

Quote
Quote
of course, it gives Toshi an excuse to "punish" her....

er, what?

Well, BDSM, of course. Toshi's ability to create clones is brilliant for BDSM usage, plus he'd have Sakura to help him.

And, yes, it would be entirely consensual....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 12, 2013, 02:17:05 AM
Yeah that sounds like a Nero thing to do  how the clones brilliant though for bdsm?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 12, 2013, 02:25:48 AM
Yeah that sounds like a Nero thing to do

Yeah, OK, fair enough.

Quote
how the clones brilliant though for bdsm?

Fucking in multiple holes, doing multiple different things to her etc. It's basically a gang-bang, only with one guy....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 12, 2013, 02:28:39 AM
Yeah I get that but how is that bdsm exactly?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 12, 2013, 03:04:51 AM
Yeah I get that but how is that bdsm exactly?

Well, it's not directly, but it does make it easy to humiliate her and dominate her, which is BDSM.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 12, 2013, 03:10:09 AM
Fair enough. I'd prefer they be used sparingly the clones in general I mean
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 12, 2013, 03:12:22 AM
Fair enough. I'd prefer they be used sparingly the clones in general I mean

Why?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 12, 2013, 03:18:18 AM
Because it is not an easy thing for him to do and writing gang bangs all the time is dull
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 12, 2013, 03:24:03 AM
Because it is not an easy thing for him to do and writing gang bangs all the time is dull

Well, yeah, sure. I don't want him to do it all the time, it's just fun now and again.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 12, 2013, 03:31:51 AM
Yeah alright, well enough of this topic, I think there's enough detail here
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 12, 2013, 03:53:35 AM
Yeah alright, well enough of this topic, I think there's enough detail here

What do you mean? We've not covered anything aside from Rin's pairing and Sakura's stuff yet. Also, if you're going to end the discussion of a particular idea, it's a good idea to suggest another idea....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 12, 2013, 03:57:01 AM
Yes, true, hmmm, well there's always the fall back idea of a gender swapped universe. We could likely do something with the concept here
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 12, 2013, 04:04:21 AM
Yes, true, hmmm, well there's always the fall back idea of a gender swapped universe. We could likely do something with the concept here

Hmm, possibly, although that's something that I find difficult to write porn for, because I don't really know the characters in the same way.

I'm not really convinced we've finished with this one yet, we've covered some aspects but we've not really gone into that much detail about other parts.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 12, 2013, 04:14:39 AM
Such as?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 12, 2013, 04:21:05 AM
Such as?

Well, anything that doesn't involve Sakura directly or indirectly....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 12, 2013, 04:24:43 AM
Not many others around if any
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 12, 2013, 04:26:05 AM
Not many others around if any

Well, anything to do with Saber's kingdom, for one thing. We've also not really decided what to do with Caster aside from her scene with Rider.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 12, 2013, 04:28:29 AM
Saber's kingdom would likely just involve shirou, caster you sorta have a point about it but I think that can be left to the editing desk
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 12, 2013, 04:29:51 AM
Saber's kingdom would likely just involve shirou, caster you sorta have a point about it but I think that can be left to the editing desk

Well, if we had anything else to talk about then I wouldn't necessarily disagree, but I don't know if I can think of much for a gender-bent universe, especially in terms of porn.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 12, 2013, 04:47:11 AM
Seriously, have you seen half of the bent cast, damn...
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 12, 2013, 04:54:12 AM
Seriously, have you seen half of the bent cast, damn...

No, I haven't, that's the problem. I've seen Shinjiko, but from what I remember of your backstory for her I'm not sure I could do an awful lot with her.

The basic issue is that none of the female characters are of massive interest to me, and nor can I see any way to involve any BDSMy stuff. Further, I don't know much about how the genderswap changes them all. So, it's not easy for me to think of anything for this setting.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 12, 2013, 04:57:54 AM
I see, well even if you can't maybe elf could
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 12, 2013, 05:03:02 AM
I see, well even if you can't maybe elf could

Well, yes, perhaps.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 12, 2013, 07:53:54 PM
a standard grail war set up then, and a rarity with Satoshi as caster summoning an alternate servant from assassin
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 12, 2013, 08:10:20 PM
Hmm, OK.

Who would be Satoshi's master, then?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 12, 2013, 08:22:00 PM
anyone really, hell even shirou.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 12, 2013, 08:28:20 PM
anyone really, hell even shirou.

Ah, OK, so he doesn't replace canon Caster directly? That implies that we need to shift the other characters around.

I'm mainly trying to see how I can create some porn out of this, particularly since Caster is the only canonical servant who is likely to do stuff like torturing enemies....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 12, 2013, 08:34:00 PM
he replaces her, just with a different master.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 12, 2013, 08:44:45 PM
Well, yes, but that means canon Caster's master needs to summon someone else, or else we need someone else to act as another master.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 12, 2013, 09:22:59 PM
any ideas as to whom?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 12, 2013, 09:47:59 PM
Hmm, not really.

We need to work out where we intend to take this story first....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 12, 2013, 10:18:03 PM
well let's see, generally a happy ending here would be good
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 12, 2013, 10:34:14 PM
well let's see, generally a happy ending here would be good

Well, yeah, that's a given, but it doesn't really narrow it down very much (aside from implying that e.g. Sakura's worms will be dealt with, which was obvious anyway given that I'm involved in discussing this...). But, a good end doesn't mean bad stuff can't happen in the middle, and for me bad stuff tends to be more erotic....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 12, 2013, 10:39:52 PM
i meant stuff like ayako being raped (at least it was implied in the original) not happening and stuff no collateral damage as it were.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 12, 2013, 10:47:45 PM
i meant stuff like ayako being raped (at least it was implied in the original) not happening and stuff no collateral damage as it were.

Hmm, I see, so you mean super-happy?

That does make it hard for me to write in porn....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 12, 2013, 11:11:09 PM
no just contained to the main cast.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 12, 2013, 11:12:42 PM
no just contained to the main cast.

What?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 12, 2013, 11:22:13 PM
i do not mean super happy i mean contained to the main cast story wise
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 12, 2013, 11:27:05 PM
i do not mean super happy i mean contained to the main cast story wise

Ah, I see, so you mean that bad stuff can happen to the main characters but not to random townsfolk?

I guess that does make sense, although cutting Caster out actually makes it quite difficult to invoke the scenes I like anyway. I'm just trying to think what we can do here, in a general sense and also in a BDSMy sense.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 12, 2013, 11:44:27 PM
Quote
Ah, I see, so you mean that bad stuff can happen to the main characters but not to random townsfolk?

yes
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 13, 2013, 03:31:22 AM
Hmm, OK, I do have an idea here.

So, we could have Shirou summon Toshi who, in turn, summons Caster. Caster then manages to use Rule Breaker to capture Rider and, appreciative of Shirou's kindness, decides to give him a reward by bringing a de-wormed, naked and bound Sakura to him as a gift, whilst keeping Rider for her and Toshi to use (obviously, Toshi will insist on consent before anything is done to her). Sakura, of course, does not object one bit, once she finds out who she's being handed to....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 13, 2013, 03:35:19 AM
Well yes it does count considering Avalon not sure why they'd tie Sakura up though. The rest works perfectly
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 13, 2013, 03:41:58 AM
Well yes it does count considering Avalon

Eh, what?

Quote
not sure why they'd tie Sakura up though.

Because it's hot :P

And, the idea was that Caster would do it on her own. Also, Sakura wouldn't initially know who her new master would be, so she wouldn't necessarily be fully receptive until she realised that.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 13, 2013, 03:47:42 AM
Odd wording considering Sakura isn't a servant and that would all have to be caster because rider and toshi do not speak that way
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 13, 2013, 03:53:13 AM
Odd wording considering Sakura isn't a servant

I mean master in the sense of "owner". I.e. she'd be his slave (obviously, Shirou wouldn't go along with it in quite that way, but that would be Caster's intention).

Quote
and that would all have to be caster because rider and toshi do not speak that way

Yes, that's the idea, because Toshi would never do such a thing. Although I guess Caster would force Rider to help to some extent.

The idea would be that, initially, Caster would be preparing her, and Sakura wouldn't know who it was for other than "Caster's master". So, she would be somewhat uncooperative, and thus Caster would tie her up (plus, having a girl dragged to you in a collar and chains ready to serve you is hot). But, once she realises where she's being taken, she'd get very turned on at the thought of being Shirou's slave, and be quite happy with the idea. And, when he is reluctant, she'd encourage him to go ahead and dom her.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 13, 2013, 03:57:46 AM
Apart from this group and presumably archer and rin is there any other characters we need to deal with?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 13, 2013, 03:59:16 AM
Apart from this group and presumably archer and rin is there any other characters we need to deal with?

Not obviously, no. Ilya, I guess, but only in a non-porn fashion.

There would also be a couple of other masters (plus Kotomine/Gil), but I think the combination of Toshi, Rider and Caster could take them down pretty easily, and there's no obvious reason for them to be involved in the porn.

Also, I edited in some more details about the Sakura sex to my last post. The general progression of their sex scenes would be something that would be interesting to work out, as would be the sex between Rider, Caster and Toshi.

I actually do wonder if it might be a good idea to have Toshi and Rider dom Caster, to "punish" her for what she intended to do to Sakura and Rider (obviously with her consent). It's rare for Caster to be the sub and not the dom in scenes, so that would be an interesting change.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 13, 2013, 04:13:09 AM
I read it, no real objections  as for punishment for caster, no, I have another idea for them
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 13, 2013, 04:14:29 AM
I read it, no real objections

Ok, good.

Quote
as for punishment for caster, no, I have another idea for them

Oh? What's that?

Also, remember, you can have more than one scene....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 13, 2013, 04:17:50 AM
He pulls an emiyaand charms rider and caster and they take up the guest house as a place to live which is mostly used for sex
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 13, 2013, 02:50:41 PM
He pulls an emiyaand charms rider and caster and they take up the guest house as a place to live which is mostly used for sex

Ah, OK.

Well, can't they "punish" Caster as part of that? It's not like the punishment won't be enjoyable....

Anyway, I have an idea for a possible setting. It's a universe in which slavery is widespread. In particular, traditionally women have been seen and treated as slaves (although there are also male slaves around). Much of the world has given women the ability to be free, and some of the more enlightened parts have abolished slavery entirely, but in Japan all women are still slaves and cannot be given freedom (except for foreign visitors, who are given a special exemption).

Sakura and Rin are Shirou's slaves, having been taken as "spoils of war" by Kiritsugu, possibly along with their mother, after the fourth Grail War. However, since Shirou isn't a dick, he treats them kindly, and also refrained from having sex with them until they were old enough. As a result, as of the Grail War he's had Rin as a trained sex slave for about a year, and is in the process of training Sakura. Despite being slaves, the two girls are quite assertive (Rin in particular is prone to "topping from the bottom") and generally much like in canon (Sakura is actually more assertive than in canon because she's not been abused by Zouken for eleven years), and Shirou is OK with this because, as I said, he's not a dick, and he also cares deeply about the two girls, who have grown up alongside him from the age of 6 or so (they've always been his slaves, but he's never been mean or abusive towards them). He is, however, still clearly the dominant one in their relationship, and there is quite a lot of BDSM involved (although not always). However, they are also somewhat prone to making rash decisions and mistakes, and thus he does expect them to obey orders when it really matters, and not to do stupid things, and if they do so they will be punished for it.

I'm not sure how Shirou got hold of the girls, exactly, but Rin would still have the Tohsaka magic crest, and both sisters would be training in magic. The idea, at least nominally, would be for their first-born son to obtain the Tohsaka crest to continue the family line. Shirou is OK with his role in things (because Sakura and Rin are happy, and Sakura is if anything jealous of her big sister for getting to fuck Shirou earlier), but is a bit unhappy about the system more generally, because not everyone is going to be so nice to their slaves.

Just when he was about to start training Sakura, the three of them receive their command spells for the Grail War. Shirou knows he has to win the war, because failure to do so will mean Sakura and Rin will be taken as spoils by the victor, and likely treated much less kindly. So, he is a little harsher with Sakura's training than he otherwise would be, in order that she will be safe during the War, and not allow herself to be captured. The house would be mostly normal, but would have a built-in dungeon area for him to use to punish the girls if necessary, or even just for playing sex games (which the girls are quite OK with).

In particular, I'd have Shinji or Zouken summon Rider, with Shinji intending to take the Tohsaka sisters as his own slaves. Sakura would get drawn into a trap of some kind (by going out without her servant) after Shirou told her not to, and would be held hostage by Shinji with Shirou being told to surrender his command spells or she dies. Fortunately, she's able to be rescued, and Shirou manages to obtain Rider somehow. However, Shirou is very annoyed with her (because of the danger she put them all in) and she's annoyed at herself. So, he enlists Rider's help in punishing her harshly for her screw-up.

I've not fully worked out the world yet, but I suspect the Grail War would have more servants. I'm also not sure what would happen with Ilya, since bringing her to Japan in this timeline wouldn't be particularly wise, and she also makes Shirou too powerful. For other masters, I'm thinking that Luvia would be one, with her goal being to capture the Tohsaka sisters (her family wants to enslave and torture them, and they have a dungeon ready and waiting), and Bazett would also be one. Both of them would be from countries where women aren't necessarily slaves, and indeed would probably own slaves theirselves. I'd imagine Gil/Kotomine would also be around, with the general intention of causing misery etc. I also considered the option of making the Grail non-corrupted, although that does change a hell of a lot.

I'd also have the Tohno family involved. In this timeline, Shiki would be the family head, and Akiha would legally be his slave. However, Makihisa would have set it up so that she actually has a hell of a lot of influence over him, and is essentially in control. Kohaku and Hisui would just be Shiki's slaves, although he wouldn't be nasty to them. They're also fighting for the Grail, but they're quite happy to take on more slaves if necessary.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 13, 2013, 05:17:19 PM
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Anyway, I have an idea for a possible setting.

the setting needs to be heavily revised, the thing is that unless it's changed into a more generally civil setting the characters no matter how civil will be different at their core
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 13, 2013, 05:20:40 PM
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Anyway, I have an idea for a possible setting.

the setting needs to be heavily revised, the thing is that unless it's changed into a more generally civil setting the characters no matter how civil will be different at their core

What do you mean by a "more generally civil setting"? I don't see how to achieve that and still keep any of the basic concept. Shirou sure as hell isn't the type of person to take girls as slaves normally, regardless of how kind he is to them.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 13, 2013, 06:07:16 PM
servants are even indentured far more civil than slaves, further more fitting with the magi and groups like the Tohno, secondly it makes the grail war that this more reasonably believable and finally Shirou more likely to accept such a consequence of the war. however this also means that logically only a master should be able to summon a servant which makes your set up a bit impractical.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 13, 2013, 06:11:51 PM
servants are even indentured far more civil than slaves, further more fitting with the magi and groups like the Tohno, secondly it makes the grail war that this more reasonably believable and finally Shirou more likely to accept such a consequence of the war.

The thing is, though, the whole point is that Shirou should be worried about what will happen to the girls if they lose, hence his desire to ensure they don't do anything stupid. Also, another part of the point is that he could rape them if he wanted to, but he chooses not to do so because he is a nice person. Having them have too many rights means it's basically just a normal relationship only with them living with him.

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however this also means that logically only a master should be able to summon a servant which makes your set up a bit impractical.

Yeah, that does pretty much destroy it, because Shirou needs a reason to train and punish Sakura....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 13, 2013, 06:20:46 PM
i'm just thinking about the sense the set makes and what the characters would be like.

trying to create a setting with only one element often leads to over looking things, i'm sorry if it seems like it's not what you're aiming for but if it were shirou would frankly be a bastard or more logically they'd live in canada and not be involved in the grail wars.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 13, 2013, 06:24:25 PM
Well, then can you suggest how you see it working, and we'll see if it can actually work out. Because at the moment it just seems like a pointless setting....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 13, 2013, 07:34:42 PM
well if you want slaves you have to justify it without bastardizing the world or the characters. rather then participating in the trade kiritsugu could be a people who fights against the trade like those in ww2 hiding or help the jewish peoples escape.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 13, 2013, 07:37:42 PM
well if you want slaves you have to justify it without bastardizing the world or the characters. rather then participating in the trade kiritsugu could be a people who fights against the trade like those in ww2 hiding or help the jewish peoples escape.

Yes, the problem is that the idea is to have Sakura and Rin as slaves to Shirou, and if he's fighting slavery that doesn't work.

Your idea isn't necessarily bad, as such, but I don't see how it leads to any of the main characters being slaves without it being very dark.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 13, 2013, 07:54:48 PM
you ought to post you revised idea as such here.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 13, 2013, 08:38:17 PM
Hmm, OK, so, the idea would be that Kiritsugu had been an anti-slave-trade fighter, who entered the Grail War in order to end the slave trade. He would survive, probably having defeated Tokiomi, but the war would be inconclusive. Tokiomi's two daughters would be orphans and, thus, likely to be enslaved, so he would take them as "spoils of war" and give them to Shirou as slaves, before retiring much like in canon, disillusioned.

He wouldn't explicitly instruct Shirou on how to treat them (although if Shirou went too far he'd step in), relying on Shirou's own conscience to realise "hey, these girls are people too" and develop the obvious conclusion from that, although he would probably mention his ideal to Shirou. Shirou would, of course, grow very fond of his slaves (and would always treat them kindly and generally as equals), although their education would be such that both he and the girls would grow up with the idea of them being sexual slaves to him when they're old enough firmly implanted in their minds, and his kindness and their general beauty and niceness would ensure that both he and the girls would be quite happy with this state of affairs. Indeed, most people would be surprised he was waiting until they were adults. The girls would also continue to learn magic to some extent, since Kiritsugu knows they might one day need to fight, but not to the level Rin does in canon.

Eventually, as they reach adulthood, the girls would ask to be "trained" as his sex slaves (having basically looked forward to it since they first started learning about their "place" in school) and, when he felt they were old enough, he would agree, with Rin starting a year before the Grail War. However, as Sakura's time for training comes up, Shirou would find out about the Grail War that was coming up, and the danger it would pose to all of them. But, at the same time, he knows he can't just ignore the opportunity to protect lives and free people from enslavement. So, he decides to participate. Despite his best efforts, the girls insist on also being involved, and he reluctantly aqrees, on the condition that they obey his orders (mainly so he can ensure their safety), with harsh punishments if they fail to do so, and also agree to some extra "training" for the purpose of preparing them for the Grail War (which would involve training in fighting with sex as a reward for success or other sexual activities as punishments for failure), along with Sakura doing the sexual training she'd been asking for.

Then, it goes as I said before, with Sakura screwing up, nearly getting captured and getting harshly punished (in a sexual manner) by Shirou and Rider (although Shirou would comfort her afterwards).
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 13, 2013, 11:22:30 PM
I would say that they shouldn't be trained and be inexperienced when the war starts.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 13, 2013, 11:27:37 PM
I would say that they shouldn't be trained and be inexperienced when the war starts.

Well, they wouldn't be well-trained, but Shirou would at least have a go at doing it. I guess them being generally inexperienced makes sense, though, and it also justifies him being a bit harsher, for their own safety.

And, other than that it looks fine? If so, then good, because this sounds like a pretty awesome idea.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 13, 2013, 11:32:08 PM
well i think it works better minus experience, and I think that given the growing up together I would see it as the slave thing being a formality. which makes it more palatable, and then decide the servants summoned.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 13, 2013, 11:47:01 PM
well i think it works better minus experience

Yeah, I definitely agree, although I do think Shirou would at least start training them once he found out about the war.

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and I think that given the growing up together I would see it as the slave thing being a formality. which makes it more palatable

Well, that was the general idea. Essentially, they're slaves only in the bedroom, and then only because they like being treated like that. The rest of the time Shirou treats them as friends and equals.

However, since they are formally slaves, they would be treated as such by outsiders. Also, in a society like that it is inevitable that the education system would reinforce the system as it stands, because that is how systems like that sustain theirselves. So, they would  be constantly reminded that their "role" in life is to pleasure Shirou and do whatever he desires throughout their teenage years. Since he is someone they love (because he's always been kind to them despite the fact that he could use them in any way he desires, and because he's generally a good and attractive guy) rather than someone they are being forced to service, they are excited by the idea, and being dominated by him becomes part of their fantasies, and something they genuinely look forward to.

However, the nature of the Grail War means that he does need to ensure they will follow orders for their own safety (since he's far better trained than they are, and they are prone to making silly mistakes), and thus he gets them to agree to do so, with the proviso that they will be punished harshly (in a sexual manner, so it's not entirely negative since they enjoy being dommed) if they disobey him. They agree fully to this and are quite OK with it, because they know he is genuinely concerned for their safety, and won't do anything to them unless they really have fucked up (and even then won't do anything to cause them real harm).

Further, he also needs to implement a rushed training program for them to get them ready in time for the war, and that means he needs to be harsher, in the same way as a Sgt. Major in Army Basic Training is harsh. Of course, since they're in a sexual relationship with strong BDSM elements, that "harshness" manifests itself in that form (although, again, he'd never do anything that caused them any real harm).

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and then decide the servants summoned.

Yeah. We also need to consider how Toshi will fit into this (since he's not going to be fucking Rin or Sakura).

Most likely Shirou gets Saber, but I'm not sure about Rin or Sakura, other than that Rider will be with Shinji (until Shirou manages to capture her).
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 13, 2013, 11:54:55 PM
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Yeah, I definitely agree, although I do think Shirou would at least start training them once he found out about the war.

by training you mean sex?

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they are excited by the idea, and being dominated by him becomes part of their fantasies

no dude, the idea of sex with him might be but not a submissive stance, especially in Rin's case.

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Yeah. We also need to consider how Toshi will fit into this (since he's not going to be fucking Rin or Sakura).

true

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Most likely Shirou gets Saber, but I'm not sure about Rin or Sakura, other than that Rider will be with Shinji (until Shirou manages to capture her).

how does that work?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 14, 2013, 12:02:37 AM
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Yeah, I definitely agree, although I do think Shirou would at least start training them once he found out about the war.

by training you mean sex?

I mean actual training, but sex would be part of it, as a reward or, in the case of some BDSMy acts, a punishment for failure.

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they are excited by the idea, and being dominated by him becomes part of their fantasies

no dude, the idea of sex with him might be but not a submissive stance, especially in Rin's case.

Why?

That's kind of part of the point here, to have something that allows for BDSM scenes (although not exclusively such).

They might not be exclusively submissive, but I would imagine they would at least have a leaning in that direction (although perhaps Sakura would be more so than Rin). Even canon Rin isn't really that dominant in bed....

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Yeah. We also need to consider how Toshi will fit into this (since he's not going to be fucking Rin or Sakura).

true

Yeah, definitely. Possibly one of the girls will get him, but that makes it hard to pair him up.

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Most likely Shirou gets Saber, but I'm not sure about Rin or Sakura, other than that Rider will be with Shinji (until Shirou manages to capture her).

how does that work?

Not sure, possibly Zouken summons her. He has a mirror, remember.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 12:21:32 AM
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Why?

rin resists being told what to do, it's a natural reflex, so she'd develop natural against submission.

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Yeah, definitely. Possibly one of the girls will get him, but that makes it hard to pair him up.

one of which girls?

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Not sure, possibly Zouken summons her. He has a mirror, remember.

i don't see her answering, heroes choose to show up remember.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 14, 2013, 12:24:05 AM
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Why?

rin resists being told what to do, it's a natural reflex, so she'd develop natural against submission.

Hmm, I see....

Well, that does cause a bit of an issue with what I was intending here, since I wanted the girls to be submissive and do a lot of BDSM stuff....

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Yeah, definitely. Possibly one of the girls will get him, but that makes it hard to pair him up.

one of which girls?

Sakura and Rin.

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Not sure, possibly Zouken summons her. He has a mirror, remember.

i don't see her answering, heroes choose to show up remember.

Hmm, I see....

Well, that's a pain, I really would like Rider here. Although, I guess she could be Sakura's servant and still assist Shirou in punishing her, at least once she's aware that Sakura consents to that treatment.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 12:51:53 AM
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Well, that does cause a bit of an issue with what I was intending here, since I wanted the girls to be submissive and do a lot of BDSM stuff....

in character fights that on rin's part.

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Sakura and Rin.

I see

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Well, that's a pain, I really would like Rider here. Although, I guess she could be Sakura's servant and still assist Shirou in punishing her, at least once she's aware that Sakura consents to that treatment.

in this reality i don't see it happening
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 14, 2013, 01:04:56 AM
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Well, that does cause a bit of an issue with what I was intending here, since I wanted the girls to be submissive and do a lot of BDSM stuff....

in character fights that on rin's part.

Hmm, well, possibly "submissive" is the wrong word, because it implies passiveness. I was thinking more that she'd enjoy being dominated, and "forced" into sex by Shirou. I.e. she'd still be firey and "resist" him (as part of roleplaying), but she'd like being tied up, spanked or otherwise tormented and then taken roughly. And, of course, outside the bedroom she'd still be her normal self (although rather kinder, since she wouldn't have been brought up alone).

As for Sakura, she would likely be similar, but a little softer. She'd also enjoy being dominated (probably even more so than Rin, and in particular she'd be rather more masochistic, and would enjoy reasonably severe pain), and would enjoy fighting back somewhat, but she wouldn't be quite as firey as Rin, at least in the bedroom. Outside of sex, though, she'd be just as assertive as her big sister.

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Sakura and Rin.

I see

Well, I'm struggling to see who else could do it.

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Well, that's a pain, I really would like Rider here. Although, I guess she could be Sakura's servant and still assist Shirou in punishing her, at least once she's aware that Sakura consents to that treatment.

in this reality i don't see it happening

See what happening?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 01:09:06 AM
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Outside of sex, though, she'd be just as assertive as her big sister.

nope, socially speaking she'd likely either less or more so.

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See what happening?

rider answering
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 14, 2013, 01:11:51 AM
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Outside of sex, though, she'd be just as assertive as her big sister.

nope, socially speaking she'd likely either less or more so.

Why do you think that?

And, what do you think of everything else I said? Do my suggestions work?

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See what happening?

rider answering

Hmm, I see....

You really can't think of a way to have Rider here? Because I would like her to be around....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 01:23:27 AM
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Why do you think that?

just the way japan's social family thing works.

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And, what do you think of everything else I said? Do my suggestions work?

well enough.

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You really can't think of a way to have Rider here?

i never said that.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 14, 2013, 01:28:19 AM
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Why do you think that?

just the way japan's social family thing works.

Hmm, I see.

Well, I think it would be an interesting dichotomy to make her more assertive outside of sex, but  a little less assertive in bed (i.e. she will "resist", but not in quite the same way as Rin, and she is more into S&M stuff rather than being dominated and taken by force).

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And, what do you think of everything else I said? Do my suggestions work?

well enough.

Hmm, so I can have Rin and Sakura as subs, just as long as Rin isn't just lying back and taking it? That sounds good, her just lying back and taking it isn't what I expected anyway. Plus, resistance is a lot hotter....

Of course, Rin and Sakura wouldn't always be the bottoms. Sometimes it would be more equal sex, and on occasion they would even end up domming. It's just that they would both very much enjoy being on the receiving end.

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You really can't think of a way to have Rider here?

i never said that.

Hmm, OK, then what do you think would work?

And, we also need to work out who the other masters will be, their intentions etc. and their servants, as well as who Rin, Sakura and Shirou will have as servants.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 01:34:06 AM
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Hmm, OK, then what do you think would work?

stealing the mirror and summoning her with say toshi etcetera.

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And, we also need to work out who the other masters will be, their intentions etc. and their servants, as well as who Rin, Sakura and Shirou will have as servants.

yeah, dunno yet
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 14, 2013, 01:48:42 AM
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Hmm, OK, then what do you think would work?

stealing the mirror and summoning her with say toshi etcetera.

Eh, what?

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And, we also need to work out who the other masters will be, their intentions etc. and their servants, as well as who Rin, Sakura and Shirou will have as servants.

yeah, dunno yet

Yeah, nor me. I did make some suggestions before (for example, Luvia wanting to take Rin and Sakura as prisoners), and I guess Ilya would likely show up, but I'm not sure who else, or where the sex will come in outside of the Tohsaka/Emiya stuff.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 01:52:00 AM
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Eh, what?

from zouken

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I did make some suggestions before (for example, Luvia wanting to take Rin and Sakura as prisoners), and I guess Ilya would likely show up, but I'm not sure who else, or where the sex will come in outside of the Tohsaka/Emiya stuff.

might be a light arc then.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 14, 2013, 01:54:29 AM
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Eh, what?

from zouken

I meant that I wasn't sure what you meant by "with Satoshi".

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I did make some suggestions before (for example, Luvia wanting to take Rin and Sakura as prisoners), and I guess Ilya would likely show up, but I'm not sure who else, or where the sex will come in outside of the Tohsaka/Emiya stuff.

might be a light arc then.

Well, I would imagine Shirou would have quite a lot of sex. I just think some variety would be nice....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 02:02:56 AM
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I meant that I wasn't sure what you meant by "with Satoshi".

being the summoner

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Well, I would imagine Shirou would have quite a lot of sex. I just think some variety would be nice....

i meant short.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 14, 2013, 02:11:17 AM
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I meant that I wasn't sure what you meant by "with Satoshi".

being the summoner

Ah, OK.

That does work, yeah, and it allows Rider to potentially pair up with Toshi, as well as possibly domming Sakura with Shirou.

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Well, I would imagine Shirou would have quite a lot of sex. I just think some variety would be nice....

i meant short.

Well, I wouldn't want it to be too short, because there are lots of fun scenes to write for Shirou....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 02:14:07 AM
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That does work, yeah, and it allows Rider to potentially pair up with Toshi, as well as possibly domming Sakura with Shirou.

pick one.

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Well, I wouldn't want it to be too short, because there are lots of fun scenes to write for Shirou....

needs balance.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 14, 2013, 02:20:55 AM
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That does work, yeah, and it allows Rider to potentially pair up with Toshi, as well as possibly domming Sakura with Shirou.

pick one.

Hmm, I see....

Well, I'm not sure. I really want to do the Sakura getting dommed by Rider and Shirou thing, and it allows Shirou to add Rider into their relationship (who is bisexual, and thus likely to service Rin and Sakura when Shirou can't), but it means we don't have an obvious girl to pair Toshi with, which will likely shorten the story somewhat.

We also do need someone who Shinji can summon, in order to provide Shirou with a reason to punish Sakura in the first place (I want that to happen regardless of Rider's involvement).

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Well, I wouldn't want it to be too short, because there are lots of fun scenes to write for Shirou....

needs balance.

Yeah, I know, hence why I'm trying to think of some alternatives.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 02:28:28 AM
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We also do need someone who Shinji can summon, in order to provide Shirou with a reason to punish Sakura in the first place

um what?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 14, 2013, 02:34:16 AM
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We also do need someone who Shinji can summon, in order to provide Shirou with a reason to punish Sakura in the first place

um what?

Do you not remember my original plan?

Sakura would rush off against his instructions and get caught in a trap by Shinji, and held hostage. Shirou would have to get her free (almost losing his servant as a result), and thus would punish her for disobeying him.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 02:35:51 AM
no i missed that.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 14, 2013, 02:37:50 AM
no i missed that.

Hmm, OK.

What did you think the "punishment" thing I was talking about was, then?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 02:39:24 AM
i thought it was a random punishment, in any case that's fine.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 14, 2013, 02:49:41 AM
i thought it was a random punishment

Ah, OK. What were you thinking it would be for...?

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in any case that's fine.

Yeah, although we do need to work out someone for Shinji.

I also need to consider how to handle Rider, and also who the two other servants the girls and Shirou will summon will be. Possibly we could pair Toshi up with one of the other servants.

As for additional partcipants, I did have the idea of Shiki having slaves, notably Kohaku and Hisui as actual slaves, and Akiha as a nominal slave. I mean, they're basically slaves in canon anyway....

They could participate, and have sex, which would add more variety. Also, Bazett would probably be involved with Lancer, which is also likely to lead to sex. And, Luvia may or may not end up fucking her servant, depending who it is.

We also need to work out how this story will end. Will Shirou get the Grail (assuming it's not corrupted), and if so what exactly would he wish for? If not, how will he deal with the situation as it stands?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 02:53:34 AM
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I mean, they're basically slaves in canon anyway....

er no they aren't
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 14, 2013, 03:02:28 AM
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I mean, they're basically slaves in canon anyway....

er no they aren't

Well, prior to Makihisa's death they are. Even after that they aren't far off, Akiha is just nice enough not to abuse them.

Anyway, do you have any responses to the rest of what I said? We need to work out the other servants etc.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 03:12:40 AM
no dude they aren't. that's your misconception

thinking about the servants, not sure just yet about who they are.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 14, 2013, 03:14:19 AM
no dude they aren't. that's your misconception

Well, OK, I'm not going to argue this. Makihisa definitely isn't kind to them, though....

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thinking about the servants, not sure just yet about who they are.

Ah, OK.

I'd think at least one should be female, if not both. Also, who will summon Toshi? Shirou?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 03:26:38 AM
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I'd think at least one should be female, if not both. Also, who will summon Toshi? Shirou?

i would say both, and toshi isn't always a servant
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Elf on May 14, 2013, 03:54:21 AM
What about Archer?  (Even though I would imagine that he would be pissed seeing a world where female sexual slavery was okay.)

And if Shirou summons Saber, I don't think Saber is going to take this lying down.  She is going to be extremely pissed.

Sorry, just the idea of women as slaves really rubs me the wrong way. It just seems sexist and chauvinistic.

Now for the Genderbent idea, what about Genderbent Lancer?

Cu as a woman? 

In Celtic warrior culture, women could fight along side of men, and Celtic mythology has its own share of bad asses.  So in one alternate reality, there is Female Lancer, who has the eye for the men that her male canon counter part has for the women. 
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 04:10:53 AM
I love that idea and I'm inclined to agree with elf here, personally I can write a ton of canon bdsm for the hell of itor hell if it's not a huge issue I can reformat the darker arcs from swords and sorcery to fit with the bdsm the and we can drop this one.
as for cu fem should she claim just one of the boys or all of them?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Elf on May 14, 2013, 04:16:28 AM
I see FemLancer as much of a homewrecker as her Canon counterpart was in legend.

I think she should have a turn with all of the men (and maybe at times two), and get into all sorts of trouble with the other women.  I don't want her bisexual, that would be too cliche, but a straight man loving chick would be a lot of fun. Also, I see her, in contrast to her male counterpart, a devout follower of the Morrigan, who not only was a war and death goddess, but one of passionate love/sex as well.

Fighting and fucking is FemLancer's favorite things.

Ironically though, the one cock she wants the most is Archer's, because he's the hardest to obtain.  (Doesn't stop her from having fun with Toshi though.)
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 04:21:21 AM
Okay awesome, now working from that point, Cu needs a  body type, with fem kirei and Gil they are stacked. Fem archer is undetermined, have suggestions?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Elf on May 14, 2013, 04:23:49 AM
I see FemLancer being tall, slim and athletic.  She has the body of a martial artist, lots of clean muscle tone and definition.  Plus a nice ass and gorgeous legs.  She has small breasts, but they're perky.

As for FemaleArcher, I see her being like Jessica Biel: Curvy, not overly so, and nicely muscular.

As for FemaleArcher, she's sort of a tragic figure, even more so than her male counterpart.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 04:30:15 AM
What's fem archers story having a good idea of her issues helps and as for the designs I like them and they fill in shirouko as well, Shinjiko is stacked as per Koto's art of her
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Elf on May 14, 2013, 04:33:52 AM
Well, you know how Archer was tried, imprisoned, and then sent to death at the end of his life?

That happened to FemArcher as well, but since she was a woman it probably wasn't as cut and dry as Archer's past.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 04:43:13 AM
Tastefully dodged the R word but ok I understand. Question here is who she should get close to, thinking maybe shirouko, I think toshi would be less inclined towards sex given such. That reminds me of what about fem issei?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Elf on May 14, 2013, 05:00:28 AM
Ironically?  I see FemArcher getting close to Rin.

She'd be crueler to the men around her.  Sarcastic and cynical.  She'd make Archer look like Mr. Sunshine.

She'd tease Toshi, but be a bitch about it.

As for FemaleIssei?  She'd totally want Shirou and possibly Toshi.  She'd still hate Rin.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 05:12:32 AM
You mean Shirouko and toshi? She'd probably suggest a three way. And yeah fem archer getting close to Rin and shirouko makes sense  I think fem cu and her should sis around and maybe spend a night maybe with archer. I weirdly see fem cu setting up a three way with helping those two out
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 14, 2013, 01:24:57 PM
What about Archer?  (Even though I would imagine that he would be pissed seeing a world where female sexual slavery was okay.)

And if Shirou summons Saber, I don't think Saber is going to take this lying down.  She is going to be extremely pissed.

Sorry, just the idea of women as slaves really rubs me the wrong way. It just seems sexist and chauvinistic.

Yes, it is, which is why Shirou isn't supportative of it. Even so, though, such things do happen in real life (hell, half the American founding fathers owned slaves), so I don't see why worlds in which such things occur couldn't exist. I never claimed this was a good system, just that it's a system that could potentially exist.

Indeed, my general idea was for Shirou to find a way to fix it by the end of the story.

Frankly, for most of history women have been treated as little more than slaves throughout most of the world. This idea just takes it a bit further (and, as I said, it's not only women who are slaves). Further, if you actually bothered to read what I posted, I said that most of the world would have changed the rules such that women aren't all slaves, Japan is just a hold-out (because it justifies Rin and Sakura being enslaved). Hell, I wasn't even 100% clear with the new version on whether all women would be slaves.

As for Archer and Saber, I'm sure they wouldn't like the system, but nor does Shirou like the system. So, I don't see the problem. It's not like Shirou is abusing the girls, or that they would even want to be free of him. They're basically just his lovers, and he doesn't treat them as slaves at all aside from in BDSM games (which do not imply misogyny in any way, shape or form).

Also, part of what I like about ideas like this is that it allows people's real nature to come out. You don't have a government guarenteeing rights to everyone, or telling you you can't abuse people. Yet, despite the nature of the society, despite the fact that he could just rape Sakura and Rin any time, Shirou chooses not to, and treats the girls humanely and as equals.

Also, I find the idea them being legal slaves, with no legal rights, who are treated as equals by their master and then willingly give up some level of control in the bedroom because they want to a very interesting one. Because in some limited way they're being treated like they're "meant" to be treated, but it's entirely consensual and limited to situations when they want to be treated like that.

Not all worlds are perfect, and nor does me suggesting something imply I think it is a nice place to live. Enslaving girls is obviously not a good thing, but it does happen to be something that I find arousing, like I find torture arousing. Doesn't mean I want to actually do it (at least without consent).

I love that idea and I'm inclined to agree with elf here, personally I can write a ton of canon bdsm for the hell of itor hell if it's not a huge issue I can reformat the darker arcs from swords and sorcery to fit with the bdsm the and we can drop this one.

Well, thanks a bunch. This is why I don't bother suggesting ideas....

I really liked this idea, because it's BDSMy without being particularly dark (at least for the main characters), and I do also find the whole "sexual slavery" thing rather hot (although I certainly don't extend it outside of sexual acts, because I agree that people should be treated equally).

To me, whilst the setting itself is rather distasteful (because slavery is indeed wrong), the situation of the girls is perfectly fine. They're treated as equals by Shirou, they're in a relationship with a guy they love and they have each other. Hell, if you look at it by any reasonable measure they're considerably better off than in canon (which is an interesting irony in itself). Their legal status might be shit, but since when does legal status mean anything? It's how you're treated that matters, and Shirou will never do anything to harm them.

But, fine, if this is how my ideas get treated then I won't suggest anything else. We spent several days talking about it, I wasted a bunch of time suggesting ideas and thinking stuff up and then Elf says "I don't like it" and you drop that and go back to talking about something you know I do not have the slightest interest in, without making any attempt to come up with an idea to replace the one you just dropped.

I know you said you'd (maybe) turn the darker ideas in Swords and Sorcery into BDSM arcs but a) I don't get any input into that (which also means I have basically nothing to contribute to this thread), b) you'll probably end up not wanting to write it because it's too dark and c) I actually like happy stories, particularly when it comes to Sakura. What I liked about this story is that it allows for a lot of BDSM stuff (some quite hardcore), but yet Sakura and Rin are actually happy. You seem to expect adding BDSM content to be mutually exclusive with happiness, when I would prefer to have both.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 06:40:27 PM
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You seem to expect adding BDSM content to be mutually exclusive with happiness, when I would prefer to have both.

on the contrary I can do both fine because there's plenty of content with characters like Rider, caster and to an extent drake at the least. the issue here is that the context of the world is far too serious for the situation. it's not the sort of thing that can just be written off and I do agree that saber and especially Archer would flip out which is nothing to speak of Satoshi himself.

It just seems like the idea as a whole places the story in a corner.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 14, 2013, 06:42:31 PM
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You seem to expect adding BDSM content to be mutually exclusive with happiness, when I would prefer to have both.

on the contrary I can do both fine because there's plenty of content with characters like Rider, caster and to an extent drake at the least.

Well, yes, true, but I would like it not to be confined to only those characters.

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the issue here is that the context of the world is far too serious for the situation. it's not the sort of thing that can just be written off and I do agree that saber and especially Archer would flip out which is nothing to speak of Satoshi himself.

Well, sure they wouldn't like it, but nor does Shirou, so I don't see the problem.

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It just seems like the idea as a whole places the story in a corner.

The problem is that you say that for every idea I have. Which defeats the damn point of me even bothering to contribute....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 07:16:00 PM
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Well, yes, true, but I would like it not to be confined to only those characters.

didn't say it was.

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Well, sure they wouldn't like it, but nor does Shirou, so I don't see the problem.

given Saber's stubbornness I do see a problem, a big problem.

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The problem is that you say that for every idea I have. Which defeats the damn point of me even bothering to contribute....

this was bad luck.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 14, 2013, 07:30:16 PM
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Well, yes, true, but I would like it not to be confined to only those characters.

didn't say it was.

No, fair enough, but designing situations in which some characters do BDSM stuff (especially with someone like Shirou as the dom) is quite hard.

More to the point, though, I don't get to provide any assistance to that. Which, aside from meaning I can't suggest pairings or scenes I'd like to see, also means that I have no way to actually contribute to the discussion in the thread.

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Well, sure they wouldn't like it, but nor does Shirou, so I don't see the problem.

given Saber's stubbornness I do see a problem, a big problem.

What problem, exactly? What is she going to do? Tell him to free Sakura and Rin (he can't, and they wouldn't want to leave anyway)? Tell him to try to overthrow the system (he is already)?

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The problem is that you say that for every idea I have. Which defeats the damn point of me even bothering to contribute....

this was bad luck.

In what way was it "bad luck"? Did you roll a dice to test if it passed or something?

If not, then luck had bugger all to do with it. You just didn't like the concept. And, if it was something about the concept that could be changed without getting rid of the stuff I actually want, then you'd have done so, or at least tried.

So, the only reasonable conclusion is that it's fundamental principle behind what I was aiming for that you object to (which is borne out by the way you're talking about it), which means it seems pointless for me to try anything like this again. It'll only get rejected again.

I'm running out of concepts to suggest. You're already seriously limiting the field by insisting it not be dark (I went through three or four concepts in my head before I suggested this one), and now you're limiting it further by rejecting things like this. There is simply nothing left, because everything will either end up as too dark or too squicky (like a universe in which people want to be slaves).
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 07:41:22 PM
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What problem, exactly? What is she going to do? Tell him to free Sakura and Rin (he can't, and they wouldn't want to leave anyway)? Tell him to try to overthrow the system (he is already)?

both, if refused she'd act on her own, if he used a command seal Satoshi would take her away from him

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In what way was it "bad luck"? Did you roll a dice to test if it passed or something?

If not, then luck had bugger all to do with it.

chill out.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 14, 2013, 07:50:00 PM
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What problem, exactly? What is she going to do? Tell him to free Sakura and Rin (he can't, and they wouldn't want to leave anyway)? Tell him to try to overthrow the system (he is already)?

both, if refused she'd act on her own, if he used a command seal Satoshi would take her away from him

Like I said, he can't free them, and even if he did they would refuse to leave. So, there is no option there.

As for the second, as I said that is a goal of his. So, where is the problem?

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In what way was it "bad luck"? Did you roll a dice to test if it passed or something?

If not, then luck had bugger all to do with it.

chill out.

Sorry, but that was just a silly statement. Bad luck is random chance, not someone making a decision you dislike in response to something you suggested. Unless you can explain how it is bad luck, it isn't.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 09:36:20 PM
Doesn't matter, they'd  fight against a world like that. It's possible to use the idea but you have to understand that there are a max of five scenes here.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 14, 2013, 09:41:27 PM
Doesn't matter, they'd  fight against a world like that.

Of course they would, I just don't see why that's an issue given that it's what Shirou wants.

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It's possible to use the idea but you have to understand that there are a max of five scenes here.

Well, I'm not entirely sure why this would be the case, but OK. If we do that we should work out the idea in more detail, because having only five scenes means a lot of stuff will need to be left out. Shirou needs at least three, IMO, to deal with both girls and Sakura's "punishment".
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 09:57:16 PM
I think that 60% of the scenes happening with the same people is a bit repetitive
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 14, 2013, 09:59:09 PM
I think that 60% of the scenes happening with the same people is a bit repetitive

Only Shirou would be the same, and it's kind-of necessary given the number of scenes you're allowing. There is simply no way it can work with any less.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 11:02:37 PM
Why does it have to be three?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 14, 2013, 11:04:52 PM
Why does it have to be three?

Because he has two girls to handle, and I don't want Sakura's punishment scene to be the only scene she has. Plus, a threesome would be kind-of nice, although I guess Sakura's punishment scene could involve that.

Honestly, even three isn't enough, but I can just about live with it.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 11:13:56 PM
You realize that you can do that in two  scenes?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 14, 2013, 11:15:06 PM
You realize that you can do that in two  scenes?

How?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 14, 2013, 11:18:49 PM
One as a threesome and the other with Sakura
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 14, 2013, 11:23:26 PM
One as a threesome and the other with Sakura

Hmm, yeah, that's possible, although a threesome makes it harder to show Rin being dommed.

I would imagine the punishment scene would be followed up by Shirou soothing Sakura and fucking her gently anyway, because he's not a monster. The idea of that scene would be that the punishment would be unpleasant for her (I mean, if she enjoys it it's not really a punishment...), so that she thinks "well, I don't want to go through that again, so I'll do what Shirou said and not rush off into mortal danger", but not traumatic, since he doesn't want to cause her real harm.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 15, 2013, 04:34:55 PM
well yes I get that. I think the idea is worked out well enough for now, i think we can revisit the discussion later.

as for right now I wanted to discuss the idea of a party at the Einzberns. the primary questions are who is invited and as a party they need dates.

imo, Archer,Shirou,Satoshi at least should be invited
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 15, 2013, 04:39:31 PM
well yes I get that. I think the idea is worked out well enough for now, i think we can revisit the discussion later.

I'm not at all convinced of this, particularly since "later" is almost certainly code for "never" (even if you do intend to come back to it, I will have forgotten all my ideas by then).

You keep doing this, suggesting an idea (or having me suggest one) and then cutting off discussion just before we get to the point where I can actually add anything of substance to it (as opposed to "Sakura should be paired with Shirou and there should be BDSM").

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as for right now I wanted to discuss the idea of a party at the Einzberns. the primary questions are who is invited and as a party they need dates.

imo, Archer,Shirou,Satoshi at least should be invited

Well, what world is this in? Is it Toshi's home universe, or another universe? And, if it's the second, where?

I mean, my choices for pairings are likely to be pretty obvious (Shirou x Sakura, Archer x Rin, Satoshi x Rider), but context could change that (Sakura certainly needs an invite, though).
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 15, 2013, 05:26:55 PM
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I'm not at all convinced of this, particularly since "later" is almost certainly code for "never" (even if you do intend to come back to it, I will have forgotten all my ideas by then).

You keep doing this, suggesting an idea (or having me suggest one) and then cutting off discussion just before we get to the point where I can actually add anything of substance to it (as opposed to "Sakura should be paired with Shirou and there should be BDSM").

it's been the point of discussion for the last bit, I thought changing subjects keeps it light, if it's really so important you can pm it to me

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Well, what world is this in? Is it Toshi's home universe, or another universe?

the latter

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And, if it's the second, where?

to be decided.

the obvious is clear that the grail war is over and ilya is obviously ok.

we choose the context.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 15, 2013, 05:44:35 PM
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I'm not at all convinced of this, particularly since "later" is almost certainly code for "never" (even if you do intend to come back to it, I will have forgotten all my ideas by then).

You keep doing this, suggesting an idea (or having me suggest one) and then cutting off discussion just before we get to the point where I can actually add anything of substance to it (as opposed to "Sakura should be paired with Shirou and there should be BDSM").

it's been the point of discussion for the last bit, I thought changing subjects keeps it light, if it's really so important you can pm it to me

The thing is, though, you keep changing subjects before I can ever get to the stuff I actually want to talk about. It is extremely frustrating. Can you please just stick with a subject and let us work it through to the end (or at least until we have nothing more useful to add), rather than suddenly announcing "that's enough, let's go onto something else".

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Well, what world is this in? Is it Toshi's home universe, or another universe?

the latter

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And, if it's the second, where?

to be decided.

the obvious is clear that the grail war is over and ilya is obviously ok.

we choose the context.

Yeah, none of this is really helpful.

I need more information to be able to add anything. As I've said before, I am not good at designing settings without something to spur me on to do so. Otherwise, all I can add is "pair Sakura with Shirou" and some vague effort to shoe-horn in some BDSM....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 15, 2013, 06:35:56 PM
fine, go ahead, present your ideas.

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Yeah, none of this is really helpful.

I need more information to be able to add anything.

noted
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 15, 2013, 07:24:58 PM
fine, go ahead, present your ideas.

Well, OK, we need to work out how the two Shirou sex scenes will go, and also who else will have scenes (although I dunno if you just want to do that yourself).

For Sakura, we need to consider how harsh Shirou would be in the punishment scene, and also work out how to set that up in the first place. I had a general idea of it involving quite a harsh caning, but also quite a bit of tit torture and some pussy torture, as well as using a cattle-prod. I thought of having him put her in the stocks, putting weighted clamps on her nipples, caning her and, then, using a spreader bad to spread her legs and whipping between her legs with some sort of flogger. Also, I like the idea of him using the little spiked wheel things that you see in BDSM stuff on her. Also, he'd likely deepthroat her and possibly, at the end, anally fuck her.

And, of course, after he's finished he'd untie her, hug her, rub soothing cream into her sore areas and, finally, take her to bed with him, where he'd make love to her gently.

Also, we need to work out how to do the threesome scene. I would say we should have Rin getting dommed, at least (possibly spanked or something), but possibly Sakura also. I'm not 100% sure on how that would work, though.

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Yeah, none of this is really helpful.

I need more information to be able to add anything.

noted

Well, OK, there are two ways we can go from here. Either you can take my ideas for pairings (Shirou x Sakura, Rider x Toshi and Rin x Archer) and we can start working a story out around that, or we can sit down and try to work out exactly what the setting should be like so I can suggest pairings better.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 15, 2013, 08:50:16 PM
I think that those pairings should be discussed. As for the bdsm thing I don't see anything wrong with the theory of that  though I have nothing to add.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 15, 2013, 08:53:02 PM
I think that those pairings should be discussed.

Well, OK, then, let's discuss it....

For the setting, something like HF comes to mind, only with Toshi probably replacing Saber (and with Ilya and Archer surviving).

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As for the bdsm thing I don't see anything wrong with the theory of that  though I have nothing to add.

What, not even about how harsh Shirou would likely be?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 15, 2013, 09:01:07 PM
What shirou is doing paints a good picture on it's own.

as for the setting that is rather annoying scene that would mean planning backwards to show off what happened before the party. I was just aiming for the party onwards. Also I'd prefer not to exclude characters if possible. It is a party after all.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 15, 2013, 09:08:33 PM
What shirou is doing paints a good picture on it's own.

What do you mean?

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as for the setting that is rather annoying scene that would mean planning backwards to show off what happened before the party. I was just aiming for the party onwards.

Hmm, OK, fair enough.

Well, I'm rather stuck, then....

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Also I'd prefer not to exclude characters if possible. It is a party after all.

Well, yeah, which is why I wrote Saber out, because she's difficult to pair up....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 15, 2013, 09:11:41 PM
I mean shirou clearly shows a level of harshness here so I can't add anything. As for writing out saber I hate write outs for that reason.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 15, 2013, 09:33:45 PM
I mean shirou clearly shows a level of harshness here so I can't add anything.

Ah, OK.

Yeah, sure, I just wondered if you thought it was a reasonable level of harshness....

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As for writing out saber I hate write outs for that reason.

Well, fair enough. The problem is finding someone to pair her with (and, indeed, the other female characters, since there are more females than males).
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 15, 2013, 09:39:51 PM
2/3rds of the world is like that, I know some characters might show up stag but not saber
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 15, 2013, 09:41:31 PM
2/3rds of the world is like that, I know some characters might show up stag but not saber

Well, yes, then who should we pair Saber with? Shirou is taken, as is Archer....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 15, 2013, 09:46:45 PM
No one is taken yet
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 15, 2013, 09:51:27 PM
No one is taken yet

As far as I am concerned, Shirou is taken. I'm not letting Sakura get dumped because Saber can't be paired with anyone else, and she has the exact same problem anyway.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 15, 2013, 09:54:31 PM
I said we needed to discuss them. If you're not going to follow along then fine, we'll see about another idea
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 15, 2013, 09:57:30 PM
I said we needed to discuss them. If you're not going to follow along then fine, we'll see about another idea

Yeah, sure we need to discuss it, but aside from the fact that this issue comes up every single time we discuss pairings and will continue to come up every time we discuss pairings, if we pair Shirou with Saber then we hit the exact same problem with Sakura.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 15, 2013, 10:20:55 PM
It's not about just those two, others girls like shirou, hell rider like shirou we need to fairly consider them all
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 15, 2013, 10:28:37 PM
Look, there is no way to "fairly" consider them all. There is no fair way to pick any one girl over the others, and even if there was it would guarentee the same pairing every time. We have to pick a girl and then go with that.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 15, 2013, 10:42:51 PM
The fairness is in the discussion. And really there are fans of others like ayako,caster etcetera
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 15, 2013, 10:49:55 PM
The fairness is in the discussion.

The thing is, there is still no way to be "fair". Because there is no way to choose a girl that isn't going to lead to us arguing over who deserves Shirou the most or whatever.

Also, it does seem pointless to ask me for ideas if my suggestions have no bearing on the final outcome. Why not just say "let's discuss it" and put forward options...?

Quote
And really there are fans of others like ayako,caster etcetera

Sure, then go ask them for ideas, or suggest them yourself....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 16, 2013, 12:01:29 AM
Ok, discussion is dead here so  let us just drop it  and move on to something else
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 16, 2013, 12:03:02 AM
Well, OK, I understand what you wanted a bit better now. So, I'm going to suggest a couple of couples, and dynamics for each of them. The first is Shirou x Sakura, who are the nice couple. The second is Rin x Archer, who are the argumentative couple, who bicker and troll each other all the time.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 16, 2013, 01:47:38 AM
Rin and archer wouldn't be the arguing  couple but ok we can work with this
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 16, 2013, 01:52:25 AM
Rin and archer wouldn't be the arguing  couple but ok we can work with this

Well, OK, what do you think their dynamic would be? I mean, arguing, trolling each other etc. seems pretty much normal for those two....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 16, 2013, 02:07:21 AM
They are the interesting couple, playful and witty, they are social opposites with clear sexual chemistry
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 16, 2013, 02:08:00 AM
They are the interesting couple, playful and witty, they are social opposites with clear sexual chemistry

Yeah, OK, that definitely fits. Although it's kind-of what I was trying to convey....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 16, 2013, 02:16:25 AM
We need the trouble makers, the wild girl and guy she's with and other personalities
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 16, 2013, 02:21:36 AM
We need the trouble makers, the wild girl and guy she's with and other personalities

Hmm, well, what would Rider and Toshi count as? I'm not sure enough of Toshi's personality to say....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 16, 2013, 02:27:19 AM
Satoshi largely depends on who he's with, as such I think leaving him till last makes sense
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 16, 2013, 02:37:41 AM
Satoshi largely depends on who he's with, as such I think leaving him till last makes sense

Well, somewhat, but I do like the idea of putting him with Rider. I guess if she's involved in some fashion it doesn't matter, though.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 16, 2013, 02:44:07 AM
Why?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 16, 2013, 02:51:31 AM
Why?

Well, because I like Rider, not specifically that pairing.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 16, 2013, 03:02:22 AM
That seems like a waste of potential honestly
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 16, 2013, 03:06:13 AM
That seems like a waste of potential honestly

What does?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 16, 2013, 03:09:04 AM
Pairing those two together just because you like rider
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 16, 2013, 03:10:17 AM
Pairing those two together just because you like rider

Waste of who's potential...?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 16, 2013, 03:13:26 AM
Both characters
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 16, 2013, 03:27:17 AM
Well, OK, fair enough.

Who do you think would work well with Rider?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 16, 2013, 03:31:09 AM
Of the canonical guys? Shirou maybe
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 16, 2013, 03:33:04 AM
Of the canonical guys? Shirou maybe

I mean of anyone, guy or girl, who isn't already selected (i.e. not Shirou or Archer...).
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 16, 2013, 03:55:10 AM
Well, caster could or drake, although they'd be party crashers
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 16, 2013, 12:59:09 PM
Well, caster could or drake, although they'd be party crashers

Hmm, well, Caster would be interesting.

Surely she'd be invited if she was partnered with Rider, though. Rider is a close friend of Shirou (especially in a timeline where he's with Sakura), after all.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 16, 2013, 01:28:56 PM
It's a date atmosphere, so that would make them a couple which I think isn't the best thing given that we have yet to work out other attendees of the party and since rider and caster dating would make them that lesbien couple. I'm not against having a couple like that but I don't see those two being as such.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 16, 2013, 01:33:45 PM
It's a date atmosphere, so that would make them a couple which I think isn't the best thing given that we have yet to work out other attendees of the party and since rider and caster dating would make them that lesbien couple. I'm not against having a couple like that but I don't see those two being as such.

The thing is, though, you did say you were trying to be "inclusive", so I'm trying to find someone to pair Rider with. Pairing Rider with Shirou isn't inclusive because it excludes Sakura (you're basically taking out the two people she pairs easiest with), so we need to find someone else.

Also, if you're going for a lesbian couple surely Rider makes by far the most sense, since she's the most lesbian character by a long way.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 16, 2013, 05:57:55 PM
Quote
The thing is, though, you did say you were trying to be "inclusive", so I'm trying to find someone to pair Rider with. Pairing Rider with Shirou isn't inclusive because it excludes Sakura (you're basically taking out the two people she pairs easiest with), so we need to find someone else.

er what about taking who out?

and we should consider other guys available before crossing off more girls

Quote
Also, if you're going for a lesbian couple surely Rider makes by far the most sense, since she's the most lesbian character by a long way.

judging by canon that's rin.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 16, 2013, 06:09:21 PM
Quote
The thing is, though, you did say you were trying to be "inclusive", so I'm trying to find someone to pair Rider with. Pairing Rider with Shirou isn't inclusive because it excludes Sakura (you're basically taking out the two people she pairs easiest with), so we need to find someone else.

er what about taking who out?

Well, pairing Shirou with Rider instantly removes from play the two people who Sakura is most commonly paired with.

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and we should consider other guys available before crossing off more girls

Well, I can understand that, but in Rider's case pairing her with a girl makes a hell of a lot more sense than pairing her with a guy. Most of the girls are at best dubiously bisexual, whereas Rider is canonically close to lesbian.

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Quote
Also, if you're going for a lesbian couple surely Rider makes by far the most sense, since she's the most lesbian character by a long way.

judging by canon that's rin.

No, Rin is bisexual, Rider is lesbian with a side of Shirou.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 16, 2013, 06:16:25 PM
Quote
Well, pairing Shirou with Rider instantly removes from play the two people who Sakura is most commonly paired with.

true but you asked the question

Quote
Well, I can understand that, but in Rider's case pairing her with a girl makes a hell of a lot more sense than pairing her with a guy. Most of the girls are at best dubiously bisexual, whereas Rider is canonically close to lesbian.

that logic doesn't follow and threesome illusion thing aside no canon instance of rider being interested in women has occurred

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No, Rin is bisexual, Rider is lesbian with a side of Shirou.

see above.

point is the other girls would probably like being with characters other then Rider.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 16, 2013, 06:23:54 PM
Quote
Well, pairing Shirou with Rider instantly removes from play the two people who Sakura is most commonly paired with.

true but you asked the question

Well, yeah, because I wanted to pair Rider up with someone who isn't already paired up. It defeats the point if we just shuffle characters around without good reason, the idea is to pair us as many as possible....

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Quote
Well, I can understand that, but in Rider's case pairing her with a girl makes a hell of a lot more sense than pairing her with a guy. Most of the girls are at best dubiously bisexual, whereas Rider is canonically close to lesbian.

that logic doesn't follow

It does when you also take into account the relative lack of guys.

Quote
and threesome illusion thing aside no canon instance of rider being interested in women has occurred

Ayako?

She also seems to be rather interested in Rin in HF True. Her being mostly interested in girls is universally accepted.

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Quote
No, Rin is bisexual, Rider is lesbian with a side of Shirou.

see above.

I could argue the same about Rin, though. There is no canonical instance where Rin shows significant interest in another girl, aside from maybe Saber in a few cases. Also, it's an unfair comparison because Rider shows up a lot less, especially in FSN.

Quote
point is the other girls would probably like being with characters other then Rider.

Well, sure, but there are only so many guys to go around. I mean, aside from Lancer, who I assume will be with Bazett, and Toshi, who else do we have left?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 16, 2013, 06:43:46 PM
Quote
Ayako?

her blood tastes good doesn't count

Quote
Well, sure, but there are only so many guys to go around. I mean, aside from Lancer, who I assume will be with Bazett, and Toshi, who else do we have left?

then lets look into that before crossing off girl.

logically

shinji, avenger, lancer Toshi (speaking of elf suggested kohaku over skype for him) oh and kuzuki.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 16, 2013, 06:57:03 PM
Quote
Ayako?

her blood tastes good doesn't count

It's pretty clear Rider's attraction to Ayako goes beyond that.

Quote
Well, sure, but there are only so many guys to go around. I mean, aside from Lancer, who I assume will be with Bazett, and Toshi, who else do we have left?

then lets look into that before crossing off girl.[/quote][/quote]

Well, yeah, sure, but we have to consider how best to pair up everyone, and pairing the guys first isn't necessarily the best way to do that.

Quote
logically

shinji, avenger, lancer Toshi (speaking of elf suggested kohaku over skype for him) oh and kuzuki.

Well, OK, Kuzuki would be paired with Caster, I would assume, and Lancer with Bazett. Shinji I dunno (probably Drake) and Avenger I'm also not sure (Caren?).

As for Toshi, whilst Kohaku could work, surely she wouldn't be invited to a party being organised by Ilya....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 16, 2013, 07:23:47 PM
Quote
Well, yeah, sure, but we have to consider how best to pair up everyone, and pairing the guys first isn't necessarily the best way to do that.

kinda is

Quote
surely she wouldn't be invited to a party being organized by Ilya....

why exactly do you think that?

Quote
Well, OK, Kuzuki would be paired with Caster, I would assume, and Lancer with Bazett. Shinji I dunno (probably Drake) and Avenger I'm also not sure (Caren?).

everyone but avenger looks good.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 16, 2013, 07:27:45 PM
Quote
Well, yeah, sure, but we have to consider how best to pair up everyone, and pairing the guys first isn't necessarily the best way to do that.

kinda is

Well, it leaves a lot of people unpaired, because there aren't that many lesbians around.

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Quote
surely she wouldn't be invited to a party being organized by Ilya....

why exactly do you think that?

Because Ilya doesn't know her....

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Quote
Well, OK, Kuzuki would be paired with Caster, I would assume, and Lancer with Bazett. Shinji I dunno (probably Drake) and Avenger I'm also not sure (Caren?).

everyone but avenger looks good.

Hmm, OK. What sort of dynamics would you attribute to those pairings, and who do you think might work with Avenger?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 16, 2013, 07:45:27 PM
Quote
Well, it leaves a lot of people unpaired, because there aren't that many lesbians around.

it might but at least we don't have to stretch belief for the ones we pair up with guys.

Quote
Because Ilya doesn't know her....

even if that were a valid reason Satoshi does know both of them.

Quote
Hmm, OK. What sort of dynamics would you attribute to those pairings, and who do you think might work with Avenger?

Lancer and Bazzet would be the beautiful woman and uptight guy, kuzuki and caster the married couple, Shinji and drake would be the wild girl and fretting guy, avenger i'm not sure about.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 16, 2013, 08:09:36 PM
Quote
Well, it leaves a lot of people unpaired, because there aren't that many lesbians around.

it might but at least we don't have to stretch belief for the ones we pair up with guys.

For Rider we really don't.

Quote
Quote
Because Ilya doesn't know her....

even if that were a valid reason Satoshi does know both of them.

Well, whether Toshi knows Ilya depends on the timeline....

Quote
Quote
Hmm, OK. What sort of dynamics would you attribute to those pairings, and who do you think might work with Avenger?

Lancer and Bazzet would be the beautiful woman and uptight guy, kuzuki and caster the married couple, Shinji and drake would be the wild girl and fretting guy, avenger i'm not sure about.

Yeah, OK, that works.

And, actually, would Rider fit with Avenger? There aren't all that many FSN girls left....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 16, 2013, 08:23:05 PM
Quote
And, actually, would Rider fit with Avenger? There aren't all that many FSN girls left....

nope.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 16, 2013, 08:24:00 PM
Quote
And, actually, would Rider fit with Avenger? There aren't all that many FSN girls left....

nope.

Aww, OK.

I really don't think Rider should be left out, because she's the only one of the major characters who isn't paired up.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 16, 2013, 08:47:37 PM
for fsn i guess, but we don't have to pair everyone.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 16, 2013, 09:04:02 PM
for fsn i guess, but we don't have to pair everyone.

No, true, but it would be better if we could pair up at least the characters who would logically be expected to come.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 16, 2013, 09:32:17 PM
well would ilya invite her?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 16, 2013, 09:56:04 PM
well would ilya invite her?

Well, given that Shirou is in a relationship with Sakura, and Rider would almost certainly be very close to Sakura, I would imagine so, yes.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 16, 2013, 10:10:42 PM
I don't see it, of the characters left i can't see rider being with any of them, I guess she'd come stag maybe.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 16, 2013, 10:14:27 PM
I don't see it, of the characters left i can't see rider being with any of them, I guess she'd come stag maybe.

Well, OK.

I would really like her to be paired up, though, she does give the hottest sex scenes.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 16, 2013, 10:24:05 PM
I can't see anyone. sorry.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 16, 2013, 10:28:11 PM
Really? Wouldn't someone like Nero work?

And, if not, who do we have left to pair up?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 16, 2013, 11:12:39 PM
nero could work but i'm reluctant to use her as a catch all
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 16, 2013, 11:41:39 PM
nero could work but i'm reluctant to use her as a catch all

But if she's not going to be paired with anyone else, then why not use her? You're the one who said you didn't want to exclude anyone....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 16, 2013, 11:56:16 PM
that's gratuitous plus i think there's quite a few characters here already.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 16, 2013, 11:59:25 PM
that's gratuitous plus i think there's quite a few characters here already.

Yeah, sure, but there is also one glaring omission in Rider.

Well, and Saber, I guess....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 17, 2013, 12:04:18 AM
and Taiga who has WAY more justification for an invite. not everyone fits
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 17, 2013, 12:09:47 AM
and Taiga who has WAY more justification for an invite. not everyone fits

Well, true, but if you can fit Rider in, then why not do so?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 17, 2013, 12:29:50 AM
well it's a bit of a stretch on nero's part.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 17, 2013, 12:38:28 AM
well it's a bit of a stretch on nero's part.

Why?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 17, 2013, 12:50:22 AM
she's not just about free love, she has to like the person. not sure if she'd have a thing with rider judging by the way she talks.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 17, 2013, 12:56:19 AM
she's not just about free love, she has to like the person. not sure if she'd have a thing with rider judging by the way she talks.

Why would she not like Rider?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 17, 2013, 12:58:27 AM
she seems to have a thing regarding inhuman cretures
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 17, 2013, 01:20:45 AM
she seems to have a thing regarding inhuman cretures

Well, Rider looks human, though, and acts pretty much like one too....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 17, 2013, 01:31:35 AM
Dracula does too, I wish CCC was in english so i could get further evidence, I don't think it's enough, plus I don't know if Nero would like being upstaged by Rider.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 17, 2013, 01:44:10 AM
Dracula does too, I wish CCC was in english so i could get further evidence, I don't think it's enough, plus I don't know if Nero would like being upstaged by Rider.

Dracula is also a vampire. Rider is nice.

And, what do you mean by "upstaged"?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 17, 2013, 01:50:03 AM
Quote
Dracula is also a vampire. Rider is nice.

learn to extra and rider is basically a vampire

Quote
And, what do you mean by "upstaged"?

showing up at the party and not being the center of attention compared to Rider.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 17, 2013, 01:44:30 PM
Quote
Dracula is also a vampire. Rider is nice.

learn to extra and rider is basically a vampire

Rider isn't a vampire. She does drink blood occasionally, yes, but generally she's nice.

Quote
Quote
And, what do you mean by "upstaged"?

showing up at the party and not being the center of attention compared to Rider.

Hmm, I see....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 17, 2013, 05:58:44 PM
Enough of one, and seriously upstaging Nero is a no no
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 17, 2013, 06:00:51 PM
I see....

Well, OK, it's pretty clear you don't want to pair Rider up with anyone left, so I'll drop it....
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 17, 2013, 06:11:11 PM
Just can't,not want. Continuing to the next part, party planning, the sex here is sorta like the game clue
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 17, 2013, 06:21:36 PM
Just can't,not want.

Not convinced about this, but meh.

Quote
Continuing to the next part, party planning, the sex here is sorta like the game clue

What?
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 17, 2013, 06:25:39 PM
Guy X with girl Y in room C doing Sex act K
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 17, 2013, 06:29:59 PM
Ah, OK.

What rooms are available...? Does a dungeon count (Ilya's castle would totally have them)? :P
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 17, 2013, 06:35:48 PM
There is no formal dungeon in the castle, I would imagine a lab with restraints and the like. Generally everything but the main hall and the kitchen would be workable
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 17, 2013, 06:45:41 PM
There is no formal dungeon in the castle, I would imagine a lab with restraints and the like.

I recall Ilya referring to one at some point in FSN (I think she says to Shirou that prisoners usually go in the dungeon when she captures him in Fate), and I'm not sure why she'd have a lab, but OK.

Who would actually end up there is another matter, though, given that Rider isn't present....

Quote
Generally everything but the main hall and the kitchen would be workable

Yes, what I meant is what rooms do you think they would have (aside from bedrooms, obviously).

Also, could you put a list of all the pairings again? It makes it easier to plan things out if we have it all in one place.
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 17, 2013, 07:15:38 PM
Caster kuzuki
shirou Sakura
Satoshi  kohaku
run archer
bazzet lancer
drake Shinji

as for the rooms nothing particularly special its a small castle, dungeon,garden, balconies, sitting rooms, bedrooms, a music room and a bath
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: lantzblades on May 17, 2013, 09:44:03 PM
Lock this please
Title: Re: of flesh and fantasy poll and discussion.
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 17, 2013, 09:45:10 PM
OK, done.