Dark Side of the Moon

Unlimited Creativity Works => Doujin Projects => Topic started by: lantzblades on May 01, 2013, 06:43:57 AM

Title: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: lantzblades on May 01, 2013, 06:43:57 AM
Some time ago we wanted to create a story idea to represent the fourm theme and interest I'd like to start such a project again. In keeping with project tidiness this post will be a table of contents for all confirmed information about the proposed story. To start with we need a genre, suggestions  are encouraged.
Title: Re: dark side of the moon, a fourm original story project
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 01, 2013, 12:32:06 PM
Well, I think we should go with what we did last time, a sci-fi story set on the moon. Not least because I don't want to waste the effort I put into the rotating city design....
Title: Re: dark side of the moon, a fourm original story project
Post by: lantzblades on May 01, 2013, 05:58:04 PM
I think an outright retread of the previous idea is a bad move, SciFi fits sure but I'd like to see what else we can figure before Committing to a do over
Title: Re: dark side of the moon, a fourm original story project
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 01, 2013, 06:09:47 PM
I think an outright retread of the previous idea is a bad move, SciFi fits sure but I'd like to see what else we can figure before Committing to a do over

The thing is, I like the previous idea, and I can't think of anything that would be better.
Title: Re: dark side of the moon, a fourm original story project
Post by: lantzblades on May 01, 2013, 07:27:27 PM
there's a lot of scifi concepts available to show off, not just the hard real ones
Title: Re: dark side of the moon, a fourm original story project
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 01, 2013, 07:38:52 PM
there's a lot of scifi concepts available to show off, not just the hard real ones

Perhaps, but I far prefer hard sci-fi. I'm too much of a scientist to do anything else and not get irritated by the lack of rigour.

I mean, watching it is one thing, but I don't think I'm capable of writing soft sci-fi. I would end up adding in proper science and turning it into hard sci-fi.
Title: Re: dark side of the moon, a fourm original story project
Post by: lantzblades on May 01, 2013, 08:18:56 PM
Fiction is an ever balancing issue, if you think you can not write such then theres a problem, hard scifi is often dry
Title: Re: dark side of the moon, a fourm original story project
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 01, 2013, 08:22:43 PM
Fiction is an ever balancing issue, if you think you can not write such then theres a problem, hard scifi is often dry

I think that I am someone who will always want to get the science right and who would far prefer doing the science in detail.

Certainly, I would far prefer a hard sci-fi story like the last one, that was fun to write. Soft sci-fi will be a lot less fun to write, because I have to keep ignoring stupid science that doesn't make sense, and I don't think I can do that.
Title: Re: dark side of the moon, a fourm original story project
Post by: lantzblades on May 01, 2013, 08:33:59 PM
why not be inventive rather then exclusionary? instead of ignoring such explain it.
Title: Re: dark side of the moon, a fourm original story project
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 01, 2013, 08:35:50 PM
why not be inventive rather then exclusionary? instead of ignoring such explain it.

Well, it depends on what you mean by "soft sci-fi". I don't mind being inventive as long as it's something I can see as being plausible.

However, I really did like the idea we had before, and that actually was allowing me to be inventive with the city design. So, I really don't want to just throw all that away.
Title: Re: dark side of the moon, a fourm original story project
Post by: lantzblades on May 01, 2013, 08:41:44 PM
i don't know what you consider plausible so i can't answer that.
Title: Re: dark side of the moon, a fourm original story project
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 01, 2013, 09:01:50 PM
i don't know what you consider plausible so i can't answer that.

Well, something that I can't take a look at and say "nope, that's not possible". For example, FTL travel is possible, but just accelerating to lightspeed and beyond is not, and nor does light (or gravity) travel infinitely fast (for example, if you blow up a star 10 light years away, people won't see it blow up for 10 years, and you cannot ever dodge a laser other than by knowing where it will hit before it is fired).

Basically, exotic physics is fine, but physics that is just plain wrong isn't. There are plenty of films that claim to be sci-fi and just plain get the science wrong (The Core and The Day After Tomorrow just to name two), and stuff like that I wouldn't consciously allow.
Title: Re: dark side of the moon, a fourm original story project
Post by: lantzblades on May 01, 2013, 09:13:47 PM
define laser?
Title: Re: dark side of the moon, a fourm original story project
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 01, 2013, 09:25:28 PM
define laser?

Anything that uses light (or anything else that consists of massless particles travelling at lightspeed) as its method of delivering energy....
Title: Re: dark side of the moon, a fourm original story project
Post by: lantzblades on May 01, 2013, 09:27:14 PM
i see, yeah serious problem then.
Title: Re: dark side of the moon, a fourm original story project
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 01, 2013, 09:41:36 PM
i see, yeah serious problem then.

Why?

You either use actual lasers, kinetic weapons (i.e. bullets or missiles) or some sort of energy weapon which is explicitly not a laser and doesn't travel at lightspeed (although it's not easy to define any such thing).
Title: Re: dark side of the moon, a fourm original story project
Post by: Alice on May 01, 2013, 09:44:32 PM
To be honest, despite the hard work that was put into past ideas, I think that starting out completely fresh and new is a good idea. New ideas for new beginnings, that sort of thing. :) So it's not so much a matter of disrespecting previous efforts so much as a desire for a clean slate.

I like urban fantasy or fantasy-ish stuff myself, but I'll let more input be put in in terms of genre before we start. Speaking of which, I think that more people should say stuff about the desired genre of this before we commit to anything.

Also, to lantz, do you mind if I clean up the thread title a bit so it stands out a bit better?
Title: Re: dark side of the moon, a fourm original story project
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 01, 2013, 09:52:09 PM
To be honest, despite the hard work that was put into past ideas, I think that starting out completely fresh and new is a good idea. New ideas for new beginnings, that sort of thing. :) So it's not so much a matter of disrespecting previous efforts so much as a desire for a clean slate.

Well, perhaps, but I really liked what we did before....

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I like urban fantasy or fantasy-ish stuff myself, but I'll let more input be put in in terms of genre before we start. Speaking of which, I think that more people should say stuff about the desired genre of this before we commit to anything.

I'm much more fond of sci-fi, and it also allows me to get a lot more involved.
Title: Re: dark side of the moon, a fourm original story project
Post by: lantzblades on May 01, 2013, 09:57:26 PM
go ahead alice, clean up is good.

hmm, fantasy, urban, scifi, I think i can do something that combines the three

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Why?

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kinetic weapons (i.e. bullets or missiles) or some sort of energy weapon which is explicitly not a laser and doesn't travel at lightspeed (although it's not easy to define any such thing).

these aren't fun or terribly survivable without hand wavium and cartoon physics, plus scifi needs energy weapons and laser are sorta stock chemical or refracted
Title: Re: dark side of the moon, a fourm original story project
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 01, 2013, 10:00:00 PM
these aren't fun or terribly survivable without hand wavium and cartoon physics, plus scifi needs energy weapons and laser are sorta stock chemical or refracted

The problem is that what you're trying to evoke here is "hand-wavium and cartoon physics". It is simply not possible to move faster than the speed of light, full stop (FTL travel is essentially just taking a shortcut), and nor is it possible to dodge something you can't even see.

I did say you could just use an energy weapon that explicitly isn't a form of light, though. It just requires a certain amount of hand-waving or new physics....
Title: Re: dark side of the moon, a fourm original story project
Post by: Alice on May 01, 2013, 10:12:09 PM
There, title changed. :) I specified original fiction in the title in order to differentiate this project from anything we do later that creates a universe based around the forum and its users.
Well, perhaps, but I really liked what we did before....

I'm much more fond of sci-fi, and it also allows me to get a lot more involved.
I can understand that. :) However, if this is truly to be a collaborative project, we need more than the three of us saying what we want out of this story. So in the end the story could be in any of the genres previously mentioned, or even an entirely different genre altogether, like Adventure or something. I was just throwing in my two cents in terms of what genre I would personally prefer, naturally it doesn't have to go that way at all so long as the majority wants something different. So really what I want is more for people to pitch in their opinions on where they want the story to go before we set a genre in stone for sure.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: lantzblades on May 01, 2013, 10:27:30 PM
you have a point Alice and i agree however commenting on the idea of adventure as a genre, fun to read but it's Indiana jones in practice and i don't think we have chops to hit the bar on that one.

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The problem is that what you're trying to evoke here is "hand-wavium and cartoon physics".

actually more 80s in general

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It is simply not possible to move faster than the speed of light, full stop (FTL travel is essentially just taking a shortcut), and nor is it possible to dodge something you can't even see.

I did say you could just use an energy weapon that explicitly isn't a form of light, though. It just requires a certain amount of hand-waving or new physics....

sounds like a lot of work and absolutism in regards to a weapon speed without considering other tech.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Alice on May 01, 2013, 10:37:08 PM
you have a point Alice and i agree however commenting on the idea of adventure as a genre, fun to read but it's Indiana jones in practice and i don't think we have chops to hit the bar on that one.
I was just using it as an example.  ;D While an Adventure tale would be fun, probably the previous genres I mentioned a preference for (Urban Fantasy and/or Fantasy) would be easier to work with.  Again, it all comes down to what the people ask for in the end. :D
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: lantzblades on May 01, 2013, 10:56:12 PM
see I like fantasy and scifi and the urban element too. i can definitely do something with these elements to build a proto type concept
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 01, 2013, 11:55:51 PM
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It is simply not possible to move faster than the speed of light, full stop (FTL travel is essentially just taking a shortcut), and nor is it possible to dodge something you can't even see.

I did say you could just use an energy weapon that explicitly isn't a form of light, though. It just requires a certain amount of hand-waving or new physics....

sounds like a lot of work and absolutism in regards to a weapon speed without considering other tech.

I'm being "absolutist" because it's an absolute fact.

You can create new technology, yes, but you can't change the laws of physics. Sure, we don't know the laws of physics in perfect detail, but the ones we do know work, and, aside from a few edge cases and more extreme conditions, they're not going to change substantially. Sure, we can add stuff that allows for new technology, but the basic principles of Relativity will still hold, and Relativity says that you cannot travel faster than light. It simply does not make sense to change that, at least substantially.

see I like fantasy and scifi and the urban element too. i can definitely do something with these elements to build a proto type concept

Well, whilst I can understand Alice's desire to get more input, I really do think we should get on with designing the story. The forum is hardly active, after all....
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: lantzblades on May 02, 2013, 01:12:17 AM
what about technology that alters physics?

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Well, whilst I can understand Alice's desire to get more input, I really do think we should get on with designing the story. The forum is hardly active, after all....

waiting a bit would be a good idea.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 02, 2013, 01:17:51 AM
what about technology that alters physics?
That is, by definition, not possible. Technology works by applying the laws of physics, it cannot alter them.

It is, however, possible that there could be some aspect of the laws of physics that allows such changes, that we have not previously noticed. However, I would find it highly unlikely that any such thing would allow something like dodging a laser or travelling faster than light locally (as opposed to by bending space such that you are essentially taking a shortcut).

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Well, whilst I can understand Alice's desire to get more input, I really do think we should get on with designing the story. The forum is hardly active, after all....

waiting a bit would be a good idea.

Well, OK, I just want to get the forum going a bit more....
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: lantzblades on May 02, 2013, 09:11:31 PM
Well ok, after waiting a bit i thought i'd pitch this idea

the future is here, it is a technocratic society developed in a high fantasy style, with the kings of industry being transformed into the ruling class.

The richest of these men rules the world from a grand palace on the moon.

Men having created robot workers call dwarves and advanced human form computers called elves.

basically that's the set up for urban fantasy scifi.

it's got all the basic elements of the three, I avoided going further till you guys give feedback.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 02, 2013, 10:10:01 PM
Well, it doesn't sound like a bad idea in concept, although I don't see how "technocracy" means "rule by the rich" or "rule by capitalists". What you're suggesting sounds more like a ultra-capitalist dystopia....

Also, the "dwarves" and "elves" thing is kind-of cheating.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: lantzblades on May 02, 2013, 10:25:29 PM
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I don't see how "technocracy" means "rule by the rich"

technology is the new currency so to speak, well commodity. he who has the tech has the power

 
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Also, the "dwarves" and "elves" thing is kind-of cheating.

it's a blend of scifi urban and fantasy cheating implies there are rules.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 02, 2013, 10:32:45 PM
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I don't see how "technocracy" means "rule by the rich"

technology is the new currency so to speak, well commodity. he who has the tech has the power

Yeah, that's not what "technocracy" means, a technocracy is a society ruled by scientists for the purpose of doing science. This sounds just like modern society, only even worse.

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Also, the "dwarves" and "elves" thing is kind-of cheating.

it's a blend of scifi urban and fantasy cheating implies there are rules.

Well, I mean "cheating" in the sense that they're not really dwarves or elves, and have little in common with them aside from the name and some very superficial traits.

Also, we need to work out what the plot would be. The society sounds to me like a horrible dystopia, so I think it needs overthrowing....
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: lantzblades on May 02, 2013, 10:41:11 PM
fine, bad pitch, moving on to somethingelse
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 02, 2013, 10:47:13 PM
Why is it a "bad pitch"?
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: lantzblades on May 02, 2013, 11:33:52 PM
anti authority stories in scifi are dry and over done, i hate them. I've no desire to run with any such development of such as a story as you seem to suggest.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 02, 2013, 11:44:37 PM
I see....

Well, anti-authoritarian stuff is the sort of thing I tend to like, and I especially hate stories that make authority look like a generally good thing which is rarely or ever abused, and those in power are magically wonderful despite having no restraints on their power. You only have to look at every internet forum ever and every dictatorship ever to see that unrestricted authority is almost always abused, especially in the long term. Even if you somehow get a genuinely good leader, their successors are almost always corrupt.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: lantzblades on May 03, 2013, 08:58:28 PM
it's a general, very general premise, without the details this is neither authoritarian or anti such, i just think anti authority  is a very very over done scifi story, the matrix was the knife in the coffin of that kind of story. we can do better then the system is corrupt and i think coming from guys and girls of the fate fandom character based stories are a much better fit.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 03, 2013, 09:05:10 PM
Well, the way you described it made it sound like it would be a horrible dystopia. A world run by businesses doesn't sound like somewhere I'd want to live, in general. You have, however, explained ways to avoid this over Skype, so as long as those are in place I think the world could at least be tolerable enough that it wouldn't require a revolution (I wouldn't necessarily like it, but I don't like the modern world either, and that doesn't mean I expect every story about it to involve an anarchist uprising and Bush's head ending up on a pike...).
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: lantzblades on May 03, 2013, 09:27:37 PM
checks and balances are what it needs true, but before we go further I'd like to hear Alice's impressions first, does it some like a good idea Alice?
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 03, 2013, 09:31:47 PM
checks and balances are what it needs true, but before we go further I'd like to hear Alice's impressions first, does it some like a good idea Alice?

Yeah, fair enough. We certainly need more than just our opinions before accepting it.

I do think it would be a good idea for you to post some of the details you came up with over Skype, though, so people can judge the idea better.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Alice on May 03, 2013, 11:42:35 PM
checks and balances are what it needs true, but before we go further I'd like to hear Alice's impressions first, does it some like a good idea Alice?
Hmm... to be honest, I don't like it very much. The elves and dwarves just seem shoved in there to make it seem more fantasy-ish. To make it fantasy, we don't really need any of the stereotypical elements so much as we need some form of magic or supernatural elements. Sci fi and fantasy can actually blend together pretty well if you're careful about it, though the problem is that there's a chance you may be somewhat limited to much softer sci fi thanks to the fantasy elements. Something like Fate/Extra would be a good example of this. Star Wars is as well. Even something like Pokemon fits to an extent. So I think it's better if we're going this route not to go by what's expected from a fantasy or sci fi story and go with wherever our ideas take us, so long as they at least vaguely fit into the categories.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 03, 2013, 11:45:02 PM
Well, in my case, at least, I tend to want the basic framework to be consistent. Even if the laws of physics in the universe we're using aren't precisely the same as in our own, I would like them to make sense. Which does make soft sci-fi hard to do, because that tends to ignore things like consistency, and I do not like that.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Alice on May 03, 2013, 11:49:26 PM
Well, in my case, at least, I tend to want the basic framework to be consistent. Even if the laws of physics in the universe we're using aren't precisely the same as in our own, I would like them to make sense. Which does make soft sci-fi hard to do, because that tends to ignore things like consistency, and I do not like that.
Something closer to our own reality with the fantasy elements interwoven may work best then. Alternatively, the more fantasy-ish things could take place in an alternate reality or in virtual reality.

Either way though, a fantasy setting also needs some form of consistency in order to work well, otherwise it just seems random. So having it make sense is a requirement to make it work not only as a sci-fi story, but a fantasy one as well.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: lantzblades on May 03, 2013, 11:52:37 PM
i'd want to avoid the vr fantasy idea, it's an immersion killer imo and very overused, I could name a hundred scifi "fantasy" stories that use vr as a cheat.

as for my pitch it was a really general mash up idea so no loss
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Alice on May 04, 2013, 12:12:51 AM
i'd want to avoid the vr fantasy idea, it's an immersion killer imo and very overused, I could name a hundred scifi "fantasy" stories that use vr as a cheat.

as for my pitch it was a really general mash up idea so no loss
Eh, not really, at least in my opinion- really, it depends on how you use it. Take Fate/Extra or CCC for example. Both of those work really well despite occurring almost entirely inside the virtual reality of the Moon Cell. I never felt like I lost my sense of immersion in Fate/Extra for example even when the game revealed or showed things going on in the world outside the Moon Cell.

Really, it depends on how well you implement it and how well you write the story. Plus there's a lot of possibilities to be had from it. Compare this with something like elves and dwarves, which are fairly rigid concepts that don't afford much variation for the most part (especially the latter) that have also been done to death thanks to the strength of Tolkien's influence on the fantasy genre.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: KAIZA on May 04, 2013, 12:15:16 AM
Well, I too like the idea of a mix between fantasy and sci-fi. Hell, my original stories take place in an urban fantasy setting, yet my game project occurring in the same universe is sci-fi (in the Future tm, but still).

If you want to emphasize the fantasy elements, maybe something like Magitek could work. Or for the sci-fi, use the fantasy elements to explain the breaks in physics.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 12:18:19 AM
If you want to emphasize the fantasy elements, maybe something like Magitek could work. Or for the sci-fi, use the fantasy elements to explain the breaks in physics.

Yeah, this is what I was expecting we would go for in this instance. Like I said, as long as it is consistent and makes logical sense, I don't object to it. What I dislike is stuff where the science is all over the place....
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Alice on May 04, 2013, 12:29:19 AM
Yeah, this is what I was expecting we would go for in this instance. Like I said, as long as it is consistent and makes logical sense, I don't object to it. What I dislike is stuff where the science is all over the place....
Yeah, I can empathize with that. It's not really a case of the science being all over the place, but a minor sticking point for me in the Pokemon anime for example is the usage of the word "clone" with Mewtwo. He's not a clone. He's a hybrid. Otherwise he'd look just like Mew. Aaaah.

But enough about that, yeah, something like KAIZA suggested is definitely the general idea. It'd help explain if we had magic show up at any time for example, so long as the magic has consistent rules and logic to it as well.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 12:30:04 AM
Well, yeah, and I have a PhD in Astrophysics. So, sci-fi is an area where I really do tend to notice the flaws in physics....
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: KAIZA on May 04, 2013, 12:38:05 AM
Yeah, I can empathize with that. It's not really a case of the science being all over the place, but a minor sticking point for me in the Pokemon anime for example is the usage of the word "clone" with Mewtwo. He's not a clone. He's a hybrid. Otherwise he'd look just like Mew. Aaaah.
Maybe he was supposed to be a clone, but they decided to "improve" him to make him the strongest Pokemon. That, or a failed attempt that ended up being better.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Alice on May 04, 2013, 12:48:07 AM
Well, yeah, and I have a PhD in Astrophysics. So, sci-fi is an area where I really do tend to notice the flaws in physics....
Oh definitely. :) Especially since you have such a heavy background in it.

But this particular thing has bothered me since high school. :P And yet other people really don't catch that despite it being high school level Biology, I'm not sure why. At least Pokemon Adventures gets it right.

Maybe he was supposed to be a clone, but they decided to "improve" him to make him the strongest Pokemon. That, or a failed attempt that ended up being better.
Yeah, that's a pretty good take on it and perhaps even the general thought behind it. :D The problem is that they continue to call him a "clone" despite him clearly not being even close to an exact genetic copy- even if all those changes were done via millions of mutations rather than inserting human DNA like I suspect they did or are shown to have done in Adventures, he'd still wouldn't be referred to as a clone due to their being way too many differences between Mew and Mewtwo. In order to still be properly called a clone, the number of mutations would have to be very minimal, such as some color differences for example. ...I am very nitpicky on this subject you see. ^_^"
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: lantzblades on May 04, 2013, 12:49:18 AM
well FE was very open about the setting, star ocean till the end of time or the other hand was less so destroying my urge to play it when the vr element popped up.

Magical technology is one way to go and the number of times i've play final fantasy 6 would attest to me liking the concept. Although I do think elves work as an element (then again i'm rather biased regarding elves) knights, samurai, theves and dragons too if anyone is interested in including such.

so ok, do you guys want hard occult or high fantasy magic? the first is like hard to use harder to learn three hour plus spells and the second is the stuff you see in typical fantasy, healing mortal wounds, fire balls etcetera. and alternate history or new world from the ground up?
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: KAIZA on May 04, 2013, 01:07:50 AM
Yeah, that's a pretty good take on it and perhaps even the general thought behind it. :D The problem is that they continue to call him a "clone" despite him clearly not being even close to an exact genetic copy- even if all those changes were done via millions of mutations rather than inserting human DNA like I suspect they did or are shown to have done in Adventures, he'd still wouldn't be referred to as a clone due to their being way too many differences between Mew and Mewtwo. In order to still be properly called a clone, the number of mutations would have to be very minimal, such as some color differences for example. ...I am very nitpicky on this subject you see. ^_^"
Well...from what I heard, the first version of Mew was inserted into the game without even Nintendo knowing about it. Maybe his design was also made on the spot? Which is why its different from Mewtwo's? Then again, this is only on the development side...

As for setting, if not urban fantasy, then alternate history or AU could be interesting. :)
Magic system...I prefer the high-fantasy one.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Alice on May 04, 2013, 01:24:48 AM
Well...from what I heard, the first version of Mew was inserted into the game without even Nintendo knowing about it. Maybe his design was also made on the spot? Which is why its different from Mewtwo's? Then again, this is only on the development side...

As for setting, if not urban fantasy, then alternate history or AU could be interesting. :)
Magic system...I prefer the high-fantasy one.
Actually, Mewtwo isn't referred to as a clone in game, only in the anime. :) Granted, it's for the wrong reason (apparently the term was too "scary"), but it's not in the game at least. :) But yeah, I think they designed the two side by side and just snuck mew in there without Nintendo knowing it. In terms of the science stuff, it's mostly ignorance on their part though. ^_^"

As for the recent story stuff.. I need to think on it more. Although, I want a few more people to say something about the genre to confirm if this is the path we want before pinning anything down.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: KAIZA on May 04, 2013, 01:38:32 AM
Actually, Mewtwo isn't referred to as a clone in game, only in the anime. :) Granted, it's for the wrong reason (apparently the term was too "scary"), but it's not in the game at least. :) But yeah, I think they designed the two side by side and just snuck mew in there without Nintendo knowing it. In terms of the science stuff, it's mostly ignorance on their part though. ^_^"
Huh...I guess I confused the two. But, yeah, just genetic splicing, not clone. But hey, at least it's not Capcom Science!
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: lantzblades on May 04, 2013, 02:01:32 AM
well the difference between a bland new world and an alternate history is in one case rather then say steam power and electricity found as in science in alt history magic would replace those inventions where as an alternate world can be any mash up we like, and I like high fantasy magic myself.

the genre i assume would be, as far as everyone who has spoken up, some mix of fantasy, scifi and urban
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 02:07:21 AM
Well, yeah, and I have a PhD in Astrophysics. So, sci-fi is an area where I really do tend to notice the flaws in physics....
Oh definitely. :) Especially since you have such a heavy background in it.

Yeah, exactly.

Quote
But this particular thing has bothered me since high school. :P And yet other people really don't catch that despite it being high school level Biology, I'm not sure why. At least Pokemon Adventures gets it right.

Fair enough. And, honestly, I doubt most people care :P

so ok, do you guys want hard occult or high fantasy magic? the first is like hard to use harder to learn three hour plus spells and the second is the stuff you see in typical fantasy, healing mortal wounds, fire balls etcetera. and alternate history or new world from the ground up?

Well, the second sounds more generally useful, but it's also possibly less interesting. I also do want the magic to make sense and the science of the world to also make sense.

And, AU doesn't make sense if we're including magic, because this world doesn't have magic....

well the difference between a bland new world and an alternate history is in one case rather then say steam power and electricity found as in science in alt history magic would replace those inventions where as an alternate world can be any mash up we like, and I like high fantasy magic myself.

the genre i assume would be, as far as everyone who has spoken up, some mix of fantasy, scifi and urban

Well, if we're doing sci-fi then we can't have magitech be too prevalent, otherwise the "science" aspect of it falls out. Magic is almost by definition something that fits outside of science.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: lantzblades on May 04, 2013, 02:31:59 AM
well you could have a societies develop differently depending on magic or science. or something like that
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 02:43:38 AM
well you could have a societies develop differently depending on magic or science. or something like that

What do you mean?
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: lantzblades on May 04, 2013, 03:24:19 AM
i assume there's more than one country
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 03:28:38 AM
i assume there's more than one country

Well, it depends on the setting, but I guess that would usually be expected to be the case.

In general, though, a country with magic would be a hell of a lot better off than one without it....
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: lantzblades on May 04, 2013, 03:46:05 AM
possibly at least on some levels.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: KAIZA on May 04, 2013, 03:48:17 AM
Well, a magic vs. technology setting is not something unheard of. If we go futuristic-type sci-fi setting for the technological side, maybe it can go even with the magic side.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 03:58:14 AM
Well, a magic vs. technology setting is not something unheard of. If we go futuristic-type sci-fi setting for the technological side, maybe it can go even with the magic side.

Well, yeah, but you have to find a way to give the technology side an advantage over the magical side. Which is difficult because technology can be copied and magic can't.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: lantzblades on May 04, 2013, 04:13:09 AM
It doesn't have to be a technology versus magic setting. Indeed I think excluding a large conflict between them would be best
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 04:15:42 AM
It doesn't have to be a technology versus magic setting. Indeed I think excluding a large conflict between them would be best

Well, yeah, I'd be inclined to agree. But, the point is that we do need technology to actually be relevant and useful, for it to be reasonably called "sci-fi".
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: lantzblades on May 04, 2013, 04:27:28 AM
Final fantasy 8 bad as it was comes to mind blending tech and magic
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 04:30:23 AM
Final fantasy 8 bad as it was comes to mind blending tech and magic

I've never played it, so I can't really comment on that....
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: lantzblades on May 04, 2013, 04:41:49 AM
Basically modern society integrated with awesome magic a space program and spider mech
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 02:42:15 PM
Basically modern society integrated with awesome magic a space program and spider mech

Ah, OK.

Well, we probably want higher-tech than that, really, if we're going to call it sci-fi. We do also need to consider how the magic will work, and try to design it in a way that means that normal science is still important. I do like the idea of integrating the two somewhat, though.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: lantzblades on May 04, 2013, 05:39:52 PM
They had a hover capable city a drill prison and numerous super death weapons most of which floated  oh a super advanced hidden city that designed spaceship boosters that were themselves spaceships, trust me it is plenty scifi
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 06:07:50 PM
They had a hover capable city a drill prison and numerous super death weapons most of which floated  oh a super advanced hidden city that designed spaceship boosters that were themselves spaceships, trust me it is plenty scifi

I see....

I would like the story to be set in space at least somewhat, though.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: lantzblades on May 04, 2013, 06:26:03 PM
We don't have a setting proper yet so that is possible assuming every one else agrees
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 04, 2013, 06:29:24 PM
We don't have a setting proper yet so that is possible assuming every one else agrees

Well, yeah, it just seems like it would make sense if we're going for any sort of sci-fi aspect. Plus, it lets me show my physics knowledge better.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: ranmabushiko on May 14, 2013, 09:51:25 AM
If I may interject... you may wish to add in some of this.  You may want to use Scifi, using elements of mysticism, martial arts, etc., to allow someone to understand technology, etc. better.

It might not be a PERFECT idea... but it's still an idea.  A lot of my teachers when I studied Ki in depth noted things like "pouring Ki into the training sword" let you understand how to wield it better, sometimes superbly if it had been used by other people before, as well as making it easier to be in tune with it to use it as an extension of your own body, rather than just crappy sword swinging.

Not so much a "Kamehameha" vs laser guns of doom, or even a rail gun, but a "+5 to cutting through a bullet using an old Katana" sort of deal.
It can also slow deterioration of damage to organs, such as eyesight, if channeled to an organ several times a month, which means it might be useful for a medical method in game.  Maybe not so much a "You won't lose your arm, because it REGENERATED INSTANTLY!" sort of a deal, but "More of the arm can be saved if it's horribly damaged, because you channeled Ki to it in time."

Psionics has several methods of making an artificial intelligence, as well, that could be used for a sort of "spying technique", but that's usually the maximum of what it's good for, except for defending against psychic attacks.  Which... really don't happen unless you're actively hunting for a fight and trying to tick someone off.  It's why I didn't read up on it much.  But in a game, that could be rather useful, as a sort of "spy drone" or "security camera that can't be found" sort of a deal, as a plotline.

Finally, people have been known to use Ki to not feel a thing while their balls have been hit with baseball bats, and 2x4s, and monks have been able to keep themselves alive without much food, air, or water, for months at a time with meditation.  You could use both for things like "pain countering" so you can focus through attacks better, and the meditation deal could've been how people were able to handle being on the moon in the first place.  If the first people they sent were monks trained in such things, it could explain the reason why colonization worked in the first place, with later colonization being possible by the first settlers, the monks.

Just thought it all might be worth a read, and tell me what you think of it.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 14, 2013, 03:51:09 PM
OK, so, how does all this "Ki" stuff supposedly work?

Obviously, I don't believe in it in real life, but this is a fictional story with fantasy elements, so there's no reason why we can't include it if it fits.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: ranmabushiko on May 15, 2013, 04:11:17 AM
OK, so, how does all this "Ki" stuff supposedly work?

Obviously, I don't believe in it in real life, but this is a fictional story with fantasy elements, so there's no reason why we can't include it if it fits.

Ki, in real life, is the life force of your body.  An easier term for it, would be the bioelectricity that your brain uses to communicate, half assed used to achieve other things.  It's the closest thing I've seen to any sort of realistic "Force" in existence.

Acupuncture is used to fix flows of Ki within the body, and though not everyone agrees that it exists, both Acupuncture and Shiatsu were developed by mapping out the flows of Ki within one's body, initially.

But, in real life, there's both the Meridians and Chakras that work for your body.  The Chakras are like the big organs that generate and adjust Ki through the body, and when in tune, helps the body keep from getting sick.  On the other hand, meridians are like the blood vessels for Ki, so it moves through the body properly.

A picture of the Meridians is here:  http://www.healingqigong.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/meridians.jpg (http://www.healingqigong.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/meridians.jpg)

And a picture of the chakras, for the traditional showing of only the major ones, is here:  http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7hzjfaunh1rskgyto1_500.jpg (http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7hzjfaunh1rskgyto1_500.jpg)

This is all based off of Chinese martial arts and medicine, mind you.  There's all sorts of different names for it.  I just call it what I was taught.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 15, 2013, 03:07:05 PM
As I said, I don't believe in any of this stuff (in particular, your explanation doesn't make any sense if you know basic Biology), but since this is a fictional universe I see no reason not to include it.

You do have to understand, though, that I want the scientific aspect of this story to actually be accurate, which means I'm not going to stick in any pseudo-scientific explanations based around "bioelectricity" (nerve signals are indeed electrical in nature, but the body does not have a reservoir of electricity or anything like that, it just creates a potential difference at one end of the nerve using sodium ions (hence why we need salt to survive)). Either it's actual science (which means either verified to be true or else something we've not discovered yet but which could be true), or it's supernatural or magical in origin and follows a different set of rules.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: lantzblades on May 15, 2013, 05:32:54 PM
KI is the outward life force as i recall, it's similar to Chi although the context is different. I thing being Ki into this could be problematic. frankly we need to establish the genres actually present first before anything else.
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 17, 2013, 10:34:48 PM
Well, OK, we should get back to working on this, then. What do we need to do next?
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: lantzblades on May 18, 2013, 12:00:27 AM
As I said we need the interested parties to formally agree on the genre we are working with its between fantasy, SciFi a mixture of the former two with urban or a mixture of all three
Title: Re: Dark Side of the Moon, a collaborative story project (original fiction version)
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 18, 2013, 12:06:59 AM
OK, well, then we need to work out who the "interested parties" actually are.