Dark Side of the Moon

Type Moon => Fanfiction => Topic started by: Cherry Lover on May 19, 2013, 03:10:14 AM

Title: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 19, 2013, 03:10:14 AM
OK, this is a thread for discussing TM fanfiction ideas.

I have a couple of things I've been thinking of, and need to flesh out. The first is a story which follows initially along the UBW route, but diverges when Shinji is killed instead of Rider, forcing Rider back into Sakura's control. My eventual intention for it is for Sakura to be forced into the war, and for it to develop such that Shirou is paired with Sakura and Rin with Archer. But, I'm not sure how to make it develop in that direction, and I could do with some help.

Another idea I had a while back (although it's admittedly been kind-of done in various places since I first had the idea) was for a story in which Zouken is somehow "purified" in the third war by some AU servant, causing him to revert to being a normal old man, and realise some of the horrible stuff he's done. He's still somewhat of a dick, but within normal magus bounds, and he's now interested in passing on his family magecraft in a normal manner rather than immortality for himself.

As a result, he raises Kariya as a magus and, since the family magic doesn't involve worm-rape, he doesn't run away like in canon, and inherits the Matou family leadership when Zouken dies (some time prior to him reaching adulthood). Even so, Aoi still marries Tokiomi, and has Sakura and Rin, but she remains close friends with Kariya (even more so than in canon). When it comes to the point where Tokiomi realises he needs someone to adopt Sakura, Kariya is the natural choice, since Aoi trusts him, he's an allied family (who needs an heir much like in canon) and he is in this timeline more conscious of the usual magus mindset (although he's still a nice guy, and cares deeply for the girls as people).

Since Zouken has brought him up to be a magus, Kariya does actually desire to pass on the family magic, and thus does take on Sakura for the benefit of the family as well as for her own benefit, and he therefore does train her as a Matou magus to some extent (which is likely to be somewhat painful). However, he also loves her like he would his own daughter, and hates the fact that he is causing her pain sometimes.

As a result, whilst her training is sometimes harsh, he is always there to comfort her, and he always tries to give her a choice and to make her life generally happy, as well as making it up to her after the training by giving her rewards. Basically, he's much more of a magus than in canon and is still trying to turn her into the Matou heir or someone who will produce an heir, but unlike Zouken he genuinely cares for her well-being in the same way as Tokiomi cares for Rin's, and wants her to have a successful and ideally happy life in her own right, rather than just being a pawn for the continuation of the family.

Also, he does try to create an alliance between his family and the Tohsakas, reasoning that it's in both of their best interests, and also not wanting the sisters to be seperated more than necessary. It's likely that he would fight alongside Tokiomi in the fourth war, as allies. Tokiomi would still die, and Rin would be raised by Aoi, but it's possible that Kariya would marry her after Tokiomi's death, reuniting the sisters. If not Rin and Sakura would be very close, and Sakura would probably stay overnight at Aoi's regularly, being encouraged by Kariya to refer to her as her mother (and Rin as her sister). They would therefore go into the fifth war as allies, although they would both desire to win the Grail in their own right. Admittedly, I'm not sure where to actually take this story yet, it just seems like an interesting setting....

So, what do you think of these ideas? Any ideas on how to make them work, or what to do with them? Any ideas of your own?
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on May 19, 2013, 08:38:56 PM
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I have a couple of things I've been thinking of, and need to flesh out. The first is a story which follows initially along the UBW route, but diverges when Shinji is killed instead of Rider, forcing Rider back into Sakura's control. My eventual intention for it is for Sakura to be forced into the war, and for it to develop such that Shirou is paired with Sakura and Rin with Archer. But, I'm not sure how to make it develop in that direction, and I could do with some help.

if i recall caster kills rider. in that that case you have to think about how she does that and what she knows.

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Another idea I had a while back (although it's admittedly been kind-of done in various places since I first had the idea) was for a story in which Zouken is somehow "purified" in the third war by some AU servant, causing him to revert to being a normal old man, and realise some of the horrible stuff he's done. He's still somewhat of a dick, but within normal magus bounds, and he's now interested in passing on his family magecraft in a normal manner rather than immortality for himself.

As a result, he raises Kariya as a magus and, since the family magic doesn't involve worm-rape, he doesn't run away like in canon, and inherits the Matou family leadership when Zouken dies (some time prior to him reaching adulthood). Even so, Aoi still marries Tokiomi, and has Sakura and Rin, but she remains close friends with Kariya (even more so than in canon). When it comes to the point where Tokiomi realises he needs someone to adopt Sakura, Kariya is the natural choice, since Aoi trusts him, he's an allied family (who needs an heir much like in canon) and he is in this timeline more conscious of the usual magus mindset (although he's still a nice guy, and cares deeply for the girls as people).

Since Zouken has brought him up to be a magus, Kariya does actually desire to pass on the family magic, and thus does take on Sakura for the benefit of the family as well as for her own benefit, and he therefore does train her as a Matou magus to some extent (which is likely to be somewhat painful). However, he also loves her like he would his own daughter, and hates the fact that he is causing her pain sometimes.

As a result, whilst her training is sometimes harsh, he is always there to comfort her, and he always tries to give her a choice and to make her life generally happy, as well as making it up to her after the training by giving her rewards. Basically, he's much more of a magus than in canon and is still trying to turn her into the Matou heir or someone who will produce an heir, but unlike Zouken he genuinely cares for her well-being in the same way as Tokiomi cares for Rin's, and wants her to have a successful and ideally happy life in her own right, rather than just being a pawn for the continuation of the family.

Also, he does try to create an alliance between his family and the Tohsakas, reasoning that it's in both of their best interests, and also not wanting the sisters to be seperated more than necessary. It's likely that he would fight alongside Tokiomi in the fourth war, as allies. Tokiomi would still die, and Rin would be raised by Aoi, but it's possible that Kariya would marry her after Tokiomi's death, reuniting the sisters. If not Rin and Sakura would be very close, and Sakura would probably stay overnight at Aoi's regularly, being encouraged by Kariya to refer to her as her mother (and Rin as her sister). They would therefore go into the fifth war as allies, although they would both desire to win the Grail in their own right. Admittedly, I'm not sure where to actually take this story yet, it just seems like an interesting setting....

the biggest issue I can see is the implausibility of this idea. it's nice but considering the other elements of canon (namely Kiritsugu) at the very least Shirou would never be friends with Rin and sakura. I still think kairya surviving is unlikely but if so then certainly shirou won't be friends with them.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 19, 2013, 08:47:29 PM
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I have a couple of things I've been thinking of, and need to flesh out. The first is a story which follows initially along the UBW route, but diverges when Shinji is killed instead of Rider, forcing Rider back into Sakura's control. My eventual intention for it is for Sakura to be forced into the war, and for it to develop such that Shirou is paired with Sakura and Rin with Archer. But, I'm not sure how to make it develop in that direction, and I could do with some help.

if i recall caster kills rider. in that that case you have to think about how she does that and what she knows.

Well, the easiest solution is for her to kill Shinji rather than what she did in canon, which was to force him to make Rider suicide.

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the biggest issue I can see is the implausibility of this idea.

In what way? I mean, that's a damn big issue....

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it's nice but considering the other elements of canon (namely Kiritsugu) at the very least Shirou would never be friends with Rin and sakura.

Why?

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I still think kairya surviving is unlikely but if so then certainly shirou won't be friends with them.

Why is Kariya surviving so unlikely? He's not an idiot, and he won't get backstabbed by Kotomine.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on May 19, 2013, 09:01:30 PM
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Why?

Kiritsugu wouldn't trust them and shirou would grow up with that bias ingrained in him.

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Why is Kariya surviving so unlikely? He's not an idiot, and he won't get backstabbed by Kotomine.

happening as per canon kiritsugu is the magus killer, he was fairly ruthless, that's why it's unlikely here with the two families being allies.

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Well, the easiest solution is for her to kill Shinji rather than what she did in canon, which was to force him to make Rider suicide.

makes sense and she wouldn't contract rider.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 19, 2013, 09:14:29 PM
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Why?

Kiritsugu wouldn't trust them and shirou would grow up with that bias ingrained in him.

That doesn't seem very Shirou-like to me. He's way too trusting and, in any case, Kiritsugu deliberately avoided telling him anything about Magi or the Grail War, so there's no reason to believe he'd tell him anything here either.

And, even if that were the case, they would almost certainly end up bumping into each other and allying during the war.

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Why is Kariya surviving so unlikely? He's not an idiot, and he won't get backstabbed by Kotomine.

happening as per canon kiritsugu is the magus killer, he was fairly ruthless, that's why it's unlikely here with the two families being allies.

Yes, Kiritsugu was ruthless, but that doesn't mean he'd be able to off Kariya. He was actually pretty smart about hiding himself, and survival would be important to him because Sakura can't train herself as easily as Rin can due to not being a Matou.

And, whilst he would try to get him during the war, if he survived it Kiritsugu wouldn't hold a grudge. He would just keep out of Kariya's way.

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Well, the easiest solution is for her to kill Shinji rather than what she did in canon, which was to force him to make Rider suicide.

makes sense and she wouldn't contract rider.

Well, the minute Shinji dies Rider vanishes and returns to her true master, as she does when the book is burnt in HF. Caster wouldn't expect that at all, so she wouldn't be prepared for it even if she did want Rider.

The question is where the story goes from there....
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on May 19, 2013, 10:19:27 PM
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That doesn't seem very Shirou-like to me.

he's not an idiot. they were enemies in the war and he knows what magi are. he would definately not trust them.

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And, even if that were the case, they would almost certainly end up bumping into each other and allying during the war.

I somehow doubt that

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Yes, Kiritsugu was ruthless, but that doesn't mean he'd be able to off Kariya.

i said unlikely, not impossible.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 19, 2013, 10:25:44 PM
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That doesn't seem very Shirou-like to me.

he's not an idiot. they were enemies in the war and he knows what magi are. he would definately not trust them.

The exact same logic applies in canon, though, and yet Shirou never has the slightest issue trusting either Sakura or Rin.

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And, even if that were the case, they would almost certainly end up bumping into each other and allying during the war.

I somehow doubt that

Given Shirou's nature and how Sakura and Rin would end up in this timeline, they would. Even if Shirou wouldn't trust them instantly, he's not someone who refuses to give people a chance, and nor is he a murderer. Further, in this timeline Sakura and Rin would end up nicer than in canon, because Rin would have a mother (but not Tokiomi) and both girls would have Kariya encouraging their human side (although he wouldn't expect them to neglect their magus side either), as well as each other.

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Yes, Kiritsugu was ruthless, but that doesn't mean he'd be able to off Kariya.

i said unlikely, not impossible.
[/quote]

I find it entirely plausible, honestly.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on May 19, 2013, 10:29:41 PM
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The exact same logic applies in canon, though, and yet Shirou never has the slightest issue trusting either Sakura or Rin.

the situation is vastly different here then there.

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Given Shirou's nature and how Sakura and Rin would end up in this timeline, they would.

much later perhaps but i think saber would warn him off.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 19, 2013, 10:46:46 PM
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The exact same logic applies in canon, though, and yet Shirou never has the slightest issue trusting either Sakura or Rin.

the situation is vastly different here then there.

How is it, from his viewpoint?

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Given Shirou's nature and how Sakura and Rin would end up in this timeline, they would.

much later perhaps but i think saber would warn him off.

Why would she warn him off any more than in canon? To her there is actually no difference, since she can't see what happened in the 10 years between the wars.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on May 19, 2013, 11:14:38 PM
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How is it, from his viewpoint?

he'd be more untrusting because of having an example in front of him

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Why would she warn him off any more than in canon?

he'd trust her more busy he would know more.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 19, 2013, 11:38:27 PM
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How is it, from his viewpoint?

he'd be more untrusting because of having an example in front of him

What?

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Why would she warn him off any more than in canon?

he'd trust her more busy he would know more.

Why would he?
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on May 20, 2013, 08:41:15 PM
he would be raised differntly given that the land owners would know about kiritsugu, he would be told to keep his magic secret and not to associate with the Tohsaka's.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 20, 2013, 11:13:15 PM
Why would the land owners know about Kiritsugu? And, even if they did, I see no reason to assume that he would need to keep his magic secret. Indeed, them knowing about him would make it more necessary for him to interact with them.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on May 21, 2013, 02:49:30 AM
Kariyawas a former master, he'd know. As a result he would deny training shirou and tell shirou to keep it a secret from the tohsaka's
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 21, 2013, 03:07:43 AM
Kariyawas a former master, he'd know.

So what?

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As a result he would deny training shirou and tell shirou to keep it a secret from the tohsaka's

He doesn't tell them anything in canon either. I don't see him considering not having Shirou talk to the Tohsakas important enough to act any differently with regard to Shirou's training (or, rather, the lack thereof). He doesn't want Shirou to become a magus or to have anything to do with magic, really, telling him to keep it secret from the Tohsakas is counter-productive in that respect.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on May 21, 2013, 03:21:19 AM
Ok, whatever
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 21, 2013, 03:35:14 AM
Well, any more comments?
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on May 21, 2013, 03:46:12 AM
Not really I find karya surviving without any changes to canon implausible and you seem to be set on shirou having no change
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 21, 2013, 11:48:28 AM
Not really I find karya surviving without any changes to canon implausible and you seem to be set on shirou having no change

I never said there wouldn't be changes to canon. Sakura certainly wouldn't be visiting Shirou's, for example, and neither would either girl have the same crush on him that they have in canon (because that came fundamentally from how unhappy they were with their lives). I just don't think Kiritsugu would tell Shirou to keep away from the Tohsakas.

In canon he deliberately avoided telling Shirou anything, in the hope that he'd just forget about magic and move on. I see no reason for it to be any different here, particularly since the Tohsaka family head died in the Grail War. Kariya might be around, yes, but he's not the head of the Tohsaka family, and the Second Owner of Fuyuki is still Rin.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on May 21, 2013, 07:09:18 PM
First off the owner would be Aoi, not Rin, secondly if he wanted Shirou to learn nothing as you claim the he would know nothing at the start of fsn which is clearly untrue and furthermore itf he wanted as you claim that gives him more reason to tell him to stay away from the tohsaka family
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 21, 2013, 07:28:40 PM
First off the owner would be Aoi, not Rin

No she wouldn't, any more than the Queen Mother was the head of state before she died. Rin is the head of the Tohsaka family, Aoi is just someone who married into it.

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secondly if he wanted Shirou to learn nothing as you claim the he would know nothing at the start of fsn which is clearly untrue

Yes but, equally, if he wanted him to know about the Grail War and so forth he would have told him. He very deliberately kept the whole thing secret from Shirou.

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furthermore itf he wanted as you claim that gives him more reason to tell him to stay away from the tohsaka family

Yes, but he doesn't do so in canon, so why would he here?
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on May 22, 2013, 08:57:02 PM
The tohsaka family is one little girl in canon, such is not the same here  as for the grail war far as I recall he thought he ended it so there is no reason to tell shirou any thing.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 22, 2013, 09:09:30 PM
The tohsaka family is one little girl in canon, such is not the same here

Well, technically it is the same. The only difference is that Rin's legal guardian is Aoi rather than Kotomine, which is hardly a bad thing from Kiritsugu's viewpoint.

Obviously, there is a massive difference from a human viewpoint, but from a magical viewpoint little has changed.

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as for the grail war far as I recall he thought he ended it so there is no reason to tell shirou any thing.

Yeah, but wouldn't that also apply here?
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on May 22, 2013, 09:30:56 PM
Partly but not completely, I think he would honestly be more cautious here
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 22, 2013, 09:40:26 PM
Partly but not completely, I think he would honestly be more cautious here

Possibly, but not to the extent of saying "don't talk to the Tohsakas". Even if he was being cautious, the best move is for Shirou to be close friends with them rather than for him to hide himself from them and just hope they don't notice him doing magic.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on May 22, 2013, 09:54:06 PM
Erm no, that is a terrible idea that would put him in more danger
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 22, 2013, 10:55:17 PM
Erm no, that is a terrible idea that would put him in more danger

I am not convinced. And, even if that is so, I do not think it makes sense for Kiritsugu to tell him to keep away. At most he would warn him to be wary of letting them find out about his magic.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on May 23, 2013, 01:04:06 AM
If you aren't friends then they have no reason to show up and find out
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 23, 2013, 01:32:01 AM
If you aren't friends then they have no reason to show up and find out

Perhaps, but that's not quite the same as "avoid them at all costs". Kiritsugu doesn't know what situation they'll be in, and he also would rather avoid letting Shirou know about the world of magic in any detail. I mean, if he didn't warn Shirou about Kotomine, who was far more of a danger than Rin would be, then why would he warn him about her?
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on May 23, 2013, 01:41:15 AM
I believe the implication is that kiritsugu believed kirei dead
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 23, 2013, 01:55:23 AM
I believe the implication is that kiritsugu believed kirei dead

Initially maybe, but he can't have failed to notice him still being alive and running the Church....
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on May 23, 2013, 08:41:12 PM
i honestly think he did due to his frequent out of town trips.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 23, 2013, 08:55:39 PM
i honestly think he did due to his frequent out of town trips.

I'm not at all convinced of that. It seems like a pretty massive oversight given that Kotomine was living openly in Fuyuki. And, the same would surely apply with regards to Rin's situation here. If he didn't know who her guardian was in canon, why would he know her status in this timeline was any different? He never saw Aoi getting killed in canon, or even cared.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on May 24, 2013, 12:29:09 AM
I think the situation is different enough here
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 24, 2013, 12:40:22 AM
I think the situation is different enough here

I don't see how it is, at least from his viewpoint.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on May 25, 2013, 04:24:47 PM
Well if you want to ignore the hole I see then that is up to you,  moving forward is there anything beyond this point?
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 25, 2013, 04:38:16 PM
Well if you want to ignore the hole I see then that is up to you

Fair enough. Honestly, I've not decided on things like this yet, I just don't think it necessarily would be the way you suggested.

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moving forward is there anything beyond this point?

Honestly, I need some idea of where to take the stories. I basically only have a set-up right now, rather than an actual plot. The reason I posted them was to get some help with that, really....
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on May 26, 2013, 02:02:33 AM
Ok, are Rin and Sakura both masters here?
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 26, 2013, 02:06:49 AM
Ok, are Rin and Sakura both masters here?

I would imagine so. Sakura is the Matou family heir here, after all.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on May 26, 2013, 02:32:55 AM
Then that is a big issue, they'll be competing against each other  (side note auto correct suggested they compete against batman) so then you have a great story element right there.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 26, 2013, 02:43:42 AM
Hmm, yeah, that is definitely an interesting story element, because they will love each other as sisters (probably even more than in canon), but they will also both want to win.

I haven't worked out their exact relationship yet, though.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on May 29, 2013, 06:05:41 PM
Moving on, any more areas you can think need work?
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 29, 2013, 07:36:18 PM
Well, pretty much the entirety of both stories "needs work". I only have a very basic concept outline right now. Exactly what Shirou's role will be would be good to work out, but I think we fundamentally disagree on that.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on May 29, 2013, 10:18:49 PM
Which other story? I thought we were discussing one
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 29, 2013, 10:26:40 PM
Which other story? I thought we were discussing one

The Rider one that I mentioned in the first post.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on May 31, 2013, 01:13:38 AM
The rider idea is easy, zouken threatens shirou with harm if Sakura doesn't fight in the war, else wise  he could tell her to use the grail to resurrect Shinji
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on May 31, 2013, 01:30:50 AM
The rider idea is easy, zouken threatens shirou with harm if Sakura doesn't fight in the war, else wise  he could tell her to use the grail to resurrect Shinji

Well, the question is why he wouldn't have done that to begin with. Not to mention that he can't harm Shirou. Using Shinji's death somehow makes sense, though, although he'd likely use it as a way to activate her.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on June 03, 2013, 06:48:39 PM
then have her activated and take the recovery route for the story.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on June 03, 2013, 06:53:07 PM
then have her activated and take the recovery route for the story.

Yeah, that's the general intention, but I would obviously like it not to just follow the same path as HF, or else it would be pointless.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on June 06, 2013, 05:15:44 PM
Then just write the events using actual logic and it won't turn out like that
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on June 06, 2013, 05:27:27 PM
Then just write the events using actual logic and it won't turn out like that

Well, the problem is that it has to result in an interesting story. Zouken dying after five seconds doesn't, really.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on June 07, 2013, 06:15:09 PM
why?
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on June 07, 2013, 06:30:55 PM
Well, because there's no conflict there and, thus, no story.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on June 09, 2013, 06:39:38 PM
if zouken is the only conflict you have then you have a big problem.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on June 09, 2013, 07:24:25 PM
if zouken is the only conflict you have then you have a big problem.

Well, perhaps, but he is at least one source of conflict.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Willy Vereb on August 15, 2013, 08:59:48 PM
Well, I guess it wouldn't be a bad idea to resurrect this.
And since I'm at the topic, I would ask:

What do you think about a fanfic where Sakura and Rin exchange places?

So Sakura would inherit the Tohsaka magic and live alone.
While Rin would be under the Matou house's "care".

How would their personalities change?
What would be the difference compared to the original events of FSN?
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on August 15, 2013, 09:17:17 PM
Well, it's definitely an interesting idea, although I'm not sure it would actually change all that much. I suspect that a Tohsaka Sakura would act much as her sister did, and the same for a Matou Rin. The situations they're both in in canon are extreme enough that their natural personality differences (which aren't that great to begin with) would pretty much get washed out.

Having said that, their reaction when the situation unfolds might well be different. Rin, for example, might well be more resistant to Zouken initially, and would probably then break hard later on, and thus by the time of FSN would probably be less able to resist him, even passively. As a result, I expect she would end up fighting in the war. Sakura, conversely, seems a bit more prone to blaming herself for things than Rin and a little bit "softer", so she might reach out to her sister a bit more, or at least show less willingness to fight her. However, Sakura also has a lot of determination and mental strength, which could mean she would stick to her goal more.

It's difficult to say how they would change, though, because their personalities in canon are so heavily affected by their childhoods. I suspect a Matou Rin would resemble Matou Sakura more than Tohsaka Rin, though, and the same would apply in reverse for Sakura. Their natures were heavily influenced by their upbringings, and HA demonstrates that Sakura ends up becoming much more Rin-like once Zouken is out of the picture.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Willy Vereb on August 16, 2013, 11:23:13 PM
Yeah, that's more or less how I thought about it a few years ago.

But is that true?
Sure, being put through the ordeals of the Matou household means considerable changes. That's the whole point of the role reversal.
But would it be just a complete switch?

Would Rin become like Sakura while Sakura just develop Rin's mannerisms?
While I can see this happening if we explain it in very broad strokes. When we look into it there would be lots of tiny differences that overall mean a substantial change in personality.
And this can be further diverged by some "artistic license".
There are many unknown sources of stimuli so the author has some room for different interpretations for both.
And then the "butterfly effect", as in random things that actually occurred differently in the new timeline.
With enough writing skill the possibilities are almost limitless.

And for this reason I don't know what else to say.
I can detail how I imagine Matou Rin and Tohsaka Sakura but that'd be just one of the many possible interpretations.
Oh well, I might get to that later.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on August 16, 2013, 11:59:09 PM
Well, it's not going to be literally just a "complete switch", no. But, at the same time, it's difficult to work out exactly what the difference would be. Sakura in particular is a very different person as a result of her upbringing.

I did say that there would be differences, though, and I outlined some of what I thought they might be. Honestly Rin is probably easier to see than Sakura, because Rin's natural personality comes out more. I see her as more likely to fight Zouken initially, but she would then break hard after a while. Most likely she would be much more obedient in spirit than Sakura is. Sakura does what Zouken tells her to do in general because she knows not doing so is generally a spectacularly bad idea, but when it matters enough to her she has the capacity to disobey him. I'm not sure a Matou Rin would retain the same capacity, and as a result she would likely end up fighting in the Grail War even despite her likely feelings for Shirou.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Tyrnek on August 17, 2013, 05:53:37 AM
Different elemental affinities, so you'd probably see less fireblasts and more weird dimensional shit from TohSakura.

MakiRin... yeah, she'd fall later but harder. Assuming that some things stay the same, though, she'd project some kind of image to hide how broken she is on the inside, which might manifest itself as delinquent behavior a la Mitsuko Souma. That might actually lead to an interesting school situation, where super-nice school idol Sakura and bitch queen Rin constantly butt heads.

Oh god. Evil dominatrix Rin sounds really fucking scary. She'd definitely be the type to set BFA on the school if she gets Rider... but a better match for this interpretation of Rin may actually be Medea. Which is, arguably, even worse.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Willy Vereb on August 17, 2013, 05:07:22 PM
Well yeah, elemental affinity actually means a lot.
With that the changes would be even more major than what you described.
- First off, as an Average One, Rin already has the attribute of water. So whatever alteration is done to her would be less severe. For example she might preserve her original eye and hair color which was said to be the result of this. Albeit knowing Zouken he might still do that just to make Rin look more like the member of the Matou house.
Second, Sakura's "shadow" element is fairly unique. Which means the Tohsaka family's knowledge and magic crest is going to be of little use. Sakura's magic would be mostly self-taught which has considerable effects on her skill in magecraft.
- Third, like its name implies, the "Shadow" in Heavens Feel was heavily based on Sakura's unique element. Same way her elemental affinity may have allowed Sakura to merge with Angra Mainyu better. With Rin's elemental mix the result would be much different. And I'm unsure if she can withstand Angra Mainyu's corruption for as long as Sakura did. Zouken in HF actually expected Sakura to turn into a mindless puppet from the corruption. And that might exactly be what happen if Sakura didn't have the element of "shadow".

So yeah. That's why when I wrote about "Tohsaka Sakura", I also exchanged their elemental affinity. This and I remember that part of Tokiomi's reasoning was that Sakura's shadow element is too unique and thus Rin is more fit to become the heir. So switching that is probably the most obvious way to change their roles.

Anyways, as for the differences between Rin and Sakura, I can only really address it in a dualist way.
- Rin puts up a strong front while being quite vulnerable inside. Sakura appeals to weakness while having a quite tough interior.
- Rin is upfront with her emotions albeit she isn't always aware of them. Sakura is clear of her emotions but she'd rather hide them.
- Rin's smile is scary because she's hiding her anger with it. Sakura's faked smile is frightening because it's filled with malicious intents.
- Rin is controlled by her rationale. Sakura follows her emotions.
- Rin is highly competitive. Sakura doesn't care about them (unless it's about something which is important to her).

And so on.
Some of these differences are the result of their history but to a degree they also stem from their core personality.
As for how I imagine "Tohsaka Sakura", she'd be well, similar yet different to Rin.
This is where the author's imagination can run wild.

Tohsaka Sakura would have none of Rin's tomboyish tendencies. Neither her tsundere persona.
In turn Sakura would be closer to the "rich girl" anime stereotype.
Sakura would be proud and even somewhat vain, which motivates her to be the best in everything.
She'd be a wolf in sheep's clothing. Soft spoken and appearing innocent, yet witty and rather manipulative.
Getting on her bad side can produce scary results. And she rarely forgets grudges.
Despite that Sakura is generally have good intentions. She just rarely holds back her punches.
Sakura would also be very protective of those close to her, and would plot behind the scenes to ensure their safety.
That includes her older sister Rin, albeit unfortunately Sakura's hands are mostly tied.
Still, she'd threaten Shinji and make sure he wouldn't dare to bully or mistreat Rin in school.

She'd be a rather intense character.
And of course this would be merely a mask.
Deep down she only wishes to live a normal and peaceful life.
After associating with a certain protagonist, Melting the Ice Queen cliches would ensure.

That's roughly my idea how I envison this alternate Sakura.
A stark contrast to Matou Sakura yet in essence very similar.
Naturally, other authors can try and use a whole different interpretation of her.
That's just how creative writing works.


 

Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on August 18, 2013, 07:46:10 PM
Different elemental affinities, so you'd probably see less fireblasts and more weird dimensional shit from TohSakura.

Yeah, definitely, although she'd still have Gandr since that's part of the crest.

Quote
MakiRin... yeah, she'd fall later but harder. Assuming that some things stay the same, though, she'd project some kind of image to hide how broken she is on the inside, which might manifest itself as delinquent behavior a la Mitsuko Souma. That might actually lead to an interesting school situation, where super-nice school idol Sakura and bitch queen Rin constantly butt heads.

I don't see Rin being a "delinquent", simply because Zouken would not allow it. It reflects badly on the family and could get him in trouble. I definitely see her trying to hide her brokeness, but honestly I think she'd mostly just be Zouken's puppet, and wouldn't dare disobey him.

Quote
Oh god. Evil dominatrix Rin sounds really fucking scary. She'd definitely be the type to set BFA on the school if she gets Rider... but a better match for this interpretation of Rin may actually be Medea. Which is, arguably, even worse.

I dunno, Rin is still fundamentally a good person. I can see her targetting those she hates, but not making an active decision to attack innocents. I think she might do it under Zouken's orders, though, if necessary.

Well yeah, elemental affinity actually means a lot.
With that the changes would be even more major than what you described.
- First off, as an Average One, Rin already has the attribute of water. So whatever alteration is done to her would be less severe. For example she might preserve her original eye and hair color which was said to be the result of this. Albeit knowing Zouken he might still do that just to make Rin look more like the member of the Matou house.
Second, Sakura's "shadow" element is fairly unique. Which means the Tohsaka family's knowledge and magic crest is going to be of little use. Sakura's magic would be mostly self-taught which has considerable effects on her skill in magecraft.
- Third, like its name implies, the "Shadow" in Heavens Feel was heavily based on Sakura's unique element. Same way her elemental affinity may have allowed Sakura to merge with Angra Mainyu better. With Rin's elemental mix the result would be much different. And I'm unsure if she can withstand Angra Mainyu's corruption for as long as Sakura did. Zouken in HF actually expected Sakura to turn into a mindless puppet from the corruption. And that might exactly be what happen if Sakura didn't have the element of "shadow".

Well, yeah, this is definitely one big difference.

Although, you're wrong about Rin not needing as much "training". She might be more attuned to the Matou's "water" element than Sakura is, but her family trait is still transfer of energy, and the Matou magic is specifically binding magic. Zouken would need to do just as much to her to make her a Matou magus as he did to Sakura, although once he had trained her she might be OK.

You're also wrong about Sakura using Tohsaka magic, at least as far as I can tell. It seems not at all uncommon for the children of a magus to have differing affinities from them (Tokiomi is fire, Rin and Sakura are different), and I can't believe that they would have designed their crest system in such a way that most of the magic in it would be useless in such a case.

The way I read the whole "affinity" thing is that, on a fundamental level, your affinity determines how you perform a particular spell rather than whether you can do it at all. A water magus and a wind magus can perform the same spells, but a water magus will do it in a "watery" way and a wind magus will do it in a "windy" way.

Quote
So yeah. That's why when I wrote about "Tohsaka Sakura", I also exchanged their elemental affinity. This and I remember that part of Tokiomi's reasoning was that Sakura's shadow element is too unique and thus Rin is more fit to become the heir. So switching that is probably the most obvious way to change their roles.

Well, exchanging them definitely makes it make a lot more sense, because I can't see Tokiomi picking Sakura over Rin otherwise. Rin's elemental affinity is just too amazing, plus she's older.

Quote
Anyways, as for the differences between Rin and Sakura, I can only really address it in a dualist way.
- Rin puts up a strong front while being quite vulnerable inside. Sakura appeals to weakness while having a quite tough interior.
- Rin is upfront with her emotions albeit she isn't always aware of them. Sakura is clear of her emotions but she'd rather hide them.
- Rin's smile is scary because she's hiding her anger with it. Sakura's faked smile is frightening because it's filled with malicious intents.
- Rin is controlled by her rationale. Sakura follows her emotions.
- Rin is highly competitive. Sakura doesn't care about them (unless it's about something which is important to her).

The thing is, most of this comes from their upbringings.

Firstly, Rin is clearly very emotional, despite her best efforts to avoid it. That's why she finds it so hard to do what she thinks she "should" do, and also where her Tsundere nature comes from. The reason she follows her "rationale" rather than her emotions is because that's the way of a magus. To be a true magus you have to do that, so a Tohsaka Sakura would necessarily do the same.

In terms of the "faked smile" thing, again, that's more a matter of upbringing. Both of them hide their intentions with that sort of grin, but Rin has more anger than Sakura does, whereas Sakura needs to be less sincere to survive under Zouken's control.

The competitiveness is the same, actually. The impression I get of Sakura is that she can be extremely competitive, but being under Zouken kills that somewhat because she really has nothing to compete for.

Quote
Tohsaka Sakura would have none of Rin's tomboyish tendencies. Neither her tsundere persona.
In turn Sakura would be closer to the "rich girl" anime stereotype.
Sakura would be proud and even somewhat vain, which motivates her to be the best in everything.
She'd be a wolf in sheep's clothing. Soft spoken and appearing innocent, yet witty and rather manipulative.

Yeah, this possibly makes sense, although I doubt she'd be anything like as shy as she is in canon. Also, in so far as Rin is a "tomboy", I think that's almost required of her to be a magus. Magi have to be physically fit etc. in order to fight.

I think she would probably be somewhat more conservative in how she dresses etc., though.

Quote
Getting on her bad side can produce scary results. And she rarely forgets grudges.

Honestly, not forgetting grudges sounds more like Rin's sort of thing than Sakura's. Sakura is a very forgiving person.

Quote
Despite that Sakura is generally have good intentions. She just rarely holds back her punches.
Sakura would also be very protective of those close to her, and would plot behind the scenes to ensure their safety.
That includes her older sister Rin, albeit unfortunately Sakura's hands are mostly tied.
Still, she'd threaten Shinji and make sure he wouldn't dare to bully or mistreat Rin in school.

Yeah, this possibly makes sense. I see her being less inclined to hide behind the whole "I'm not allowed to speak to her" thing than Rin is. She also does seem a bit more secretive in her actions than Rin, so plotting stuff might perhaps make sense. Although, like you say, her intentions would always be good.

Quote
She'd be a rather intense character.
And of course this would be merely a mask.
Deep down she only wishes to live a normal and peaceful life.
After associating with a certain protagonist, Melting the Ice Queen cliches would ensure.

Well, I'm not sure Sakura's true wish would be to "live a normal and peaceful life". I think that comes entirely from being abused for most of her childhood. She would definitely want a family and friends, much like Rin does, but I don't think she'd be eager to just give up magecraft.

Quote
That's roughly my idea how I envison this alternate Sakura.
A stark contrast to Matou Sakura yet in essence very similar.
Naturally, other authors can try and use a whole different interpretation of her.
That's just how creative writing works.

Well, yeah, of course, it is ultimately personal opinion.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Elf on August 20, 2013, 05:40:59 AM
So, in Prisma Ilya, when Ilya activates the Archer card for the first time, instead of creating Kuro, it summons EMIYA as a Servant.

Shenannigans ensure! 

Archer gets to see a reality where Ilya's pretty much a normal girl without an expiration date, Kiritsugu is still alive, and most importantly, Emiya Shirou does not want to become a Superhero.

However, while some things change, others stay the same when Rin proclaims that, like Ilya, Archer is hers to use to collect the Class cards.  And Ruby plays matchmaker in the most horrible ways possible.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Alice on August 20, 2013, 06:13:14 AM
I've actually been batting around some ideas of a similar nature where Archer gets summoned by the Archer card, so I think this is an interesting idea. :) Plus more Ruby trolling. Ruby trolling is always fun. :3
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on August 20, 2013, 06:18:12 AM
Well I just want to say that the cross over I had with fsn and ccs was developed long before this, as for prisms ideas I always thought one where shirou actually gets involved would be neat
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Mordalfus Grea on October 01, 2013, 07:37:36 AM
Okay this is a really recent Idea I had, I will admit that it is far fetched and probably impossible. If I am willing to admit this at the start of the post, you can imagine just what my idea could be?

This idea features a version of Shirou, one that was offered a deal to change thing by the two deities of their world; Gain and Alaya. Shirou was basically given access to every noble phantasm he could copy and was allowed to add those he never could add to his arsenal before, such as Gilgamesh's Ea. Why are they doing all of this for one human? It is because of Shirou's character and willingness to forsake his own life for others, they are planing to change something. When the time came, Shirou was whisked away to a barren land where he met a very human Zelretch and learned of what he was going. Shirou was about to join Zelretch in his fight against Crimson Moon, it really made sense now as to way his arsenal got upgraded. However there was another slight twist and apparently this was an alternate universe where one thing had been changed, Crimson Moon was a woman. An incredibly lonely, attention starved woman in need of someone to look after her like a caretaker. The Battle occurred like it did in his realm, both he and Zelretch lost their Humanity to her. But when it was time to leave, Shirou opted to stay with her and be her friend. Neither of the two would realize the outcome this would have on the rest of the timeline, Saber's kingdom had yet to rise up and many other things as well.

In this story line the main pairings are: Past!Shirou x Sakura; Past!Shirou x Saber; Shirou x Female!Crimson Moon;

Shirou is an immortal vampire and the companion for a female!Crimson Moon, the two Brunestud girls; Altrouge & Arcueid would instead be their children. Thing would be different, some lives would be saved but others were impossible to be saved and some menaces would be taken care of before things got out of hand [Zouken].

Again i don't expect this idea to go very far, so if you guys want to pick it apart. Feel free to do so, it was a Crazy idea on my part after all.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on October 02, 2013, 02:45:53 AM
What do you mean by "Past Shirou" here?
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Mordalfus Grea on October 02, 2013, 03:21:04 AM
Past!Shirou basically means as in a previous relationship, so basically before all this he was with Saber and Sakura.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on October 02, 2013, 03:34:24 AM
Past!Shirou basically means as in a previous relationship, so basically before all this he was with Saber and Sakura.

Oh, OK, so that is part of the backstory rather than an actual pairing?
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Mordalfus Grea on October 02, 2013, 06:42:53 AM
Aye. Shirou will be the companion/lover/guardian of this female crimson moon, but that does not he doesn't have a thing for them and will probably meet them at least twice on different terms.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on October 02, 2013, 01:07:47 PM
Hmm, so, would Shirou be the only FSN character with a prominent role here?
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on October 03, 2013, 12:54:43 AM
Ok, crimson moon I get, Shirou with crimson I get but the number of physics that get broken with the case of zel and shirou being around at the same time and the lack of logic with arc is stunning. I'd put the idea on the shelf of stuff that's too crazy to write.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Mordalfus Grea on October 03, 2013, 04:16:09 AM
I already stated that it may be too far fetched to work, but the main way I figured was Gaia and Alaya sending Shirou to help Zelretch before he met Crimson Moon in combat.

But yeah, It is got shelved.

We need a list of Shelved Ideas, Plots and Pairings for future reference because the Shirou x Female!Crimson Moon just joined the impossible pairings list. Not disappointed by this, I expected that it would get shot down like this but I needed to get the idea out of my head.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on October 03, 2013, 04:52:44 AM
The pairing isn't the issue honestly
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Mordalfus Grea on October 03, 2013, 01:03:09 PM
If its not the pairing than what is the issue than?
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on October 04, 2013, 12:06:20 AM
The time travel  (Alaya wants crim dead) and Arc existing period while crim is alive as well as zel not trying to murder crim.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Mordalfus Grea on October 11, 2013, 06:24:53 AM
this is another Iffy idea of mine, this one starting from Shirou's Origin

What if Shirou was not alone when Kiritsugu found him, what if Shirou had a Twin sister who was also still alive. What if the two of them had a conjoined inner world (not a joined mind but something near that, think of a Twins-Bond or something like that) so when Kiritsugu used avalon on one of them, it affect both of them. Skip ahead a full five years later and Shirou's sister catches the attention of a certain king, said king decides to go undercover as a child in her school to earn her affection as her fellow student while earning her awe. Skip ahead another five years and Gil has only achieved half of his plan, as Shirou's sister has a crush on him equal to Sakura's own crush on her brother. So how will the Holy Grail War fair when Shirou has a Twin sister who is a magus like himself (same level and abilities) but loves the Golden King/Prince and said king/prince has been somewhat humbled by living five years as a human child but continues to strive for [shirou's Sister]'s attention while avoiding his ever growing collection of rabid fangirls.

Main Pairings: Shirou x Sakura; Chibi Gil[gamesh] x Fem!Shirou; One Sided Shinji x Fem!Shirou;
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on October 11, 2013, 09:32:38 PM
Hmm, why would Gil like this girl?

Also, if there are two Shirous and they have Gil on their side, wouldn't they basically walk the war without any problems? Particularly since Gil most likely has something to kill the worms in Sakura without harming her in the process.

I'm also guessing Shinji is going to die horribly....
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on October 14, 2013, 10:31:41 PM
On the shelf with a biohazard symbol mord
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Mordalfus Grea on October 17, 2013, 02:14:59 AM
Too many plot holes?
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on October 23, 2013, 01:54:23 AM
Gilgamesh and being interested in a female Shirou is hard enough to believe but he's far too far out of character.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on October 23, 2013, 02:26:48 PM
Well, he is chibi Gil. Chibi Gil is somewhat nicer....
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: The Man With All The Cute Boats on October 24, 2013, 08:19:58 PM
Guys what about a story set 2 years before the grail war, in which Fuyuki is having loads of disappearances happen and Rin has to investigate once evidence that a magus might be behind it pops up. Kirei's on one of his many trips so he isn't around at the time to take care of it himself.

First person Rin story, contains an OC bad guy (Since who else, really) and contains character appearances from lots of other characters as well, such as Shirou and Shinji. (Back when they were BFF)

Concentrates on Rin as a character as she has to surpass herself and think outside of the magus box to figure out a way to track down this person who is terrorizing her city.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on October 24, 2013, 08:22:27 PM
Well, it's not really my thing for the obvious reason, but it certainly could be an interesting fic.

Although, then, Fuyuki already has Zouken, who kills people semi-regularly without being noticed, so I'd hope that Rin might use her new-found investigative skills to investigate why her sister is always so sad....
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: The Man With All The Cute Boats on October 24, 2013, 08:32:39 PM
To be fair Zouken is said to be gone most of the time. He doesn't really make disappearances in Fuyuki itself happen that often. Rin would have quite a lot of work to do.

But since my plans for this ultimately end up delaying the grail war(Blame Rin for this, research in leylines involved) and cause a battle between Rin and Shirou in only the second arc, there probably will be an anti-Zouken arc at some point as well since everything is going X-TREME FUSTERCLUCK.

But don't put your hopes up, my ability to write has turned to shit. I'd be lucky if I managed 5000 words of this thing before it all blocked.

Anyway this entire story is me trying to use the fuyuki setting without the grail war, because retellings of the grail war are becoming so very stale.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on October 24, 2013, 08:55:26 PM
Well, yeah, I'm thinking more of the fact that Sakura is obviously really unhappy (Rin acknowledges in HF that she noticed that).

But, yeah, I definitely see what you're saying there. The whole "let's do an alternate Grail War" thing is massively overused. Something different would definitely be good. I guess that a lot of it is because of the popularity of the servants (I would say that, overall, they're probably more popular than the masters), which means people usually won't want to write stuff that excludes them.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Alice on October 25, 2013, 02:25:47 PM
It's definitely an interesting idea. :) Particularly since you don't see Rin and Shirou facing off against each other very often, and like you said, the "Alternate Grail War" thing is already kinda overdone.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Elf on February 10, 2014, 12:17:51 AM
I just had a really crazy idea for a fic.

I think this would probably work Post-Fate.

Rin's been working on a way to get the Second Magic.  She's been working on it for years.  She has burred herself in work since the conflict that could have started another Grail War with Waver.  Insert something tragic happening.  Maybe Rin having to put Sakura down like Old Yeller because she was created to be a Grail of sorts by Zouken.  Something where Rin couldn't outright admit or grieve from.

Anyway, she found out about all the tragic shit that happened to her sister.  Not to mention she sees things on the news about Shirou from time to time as well.  Her life is lonely and she has regrets.  So she's doing what any repressed magus would do; try to find a way to the Root or in her case the Second Magic to validate that her life has meaning.

She does; just not in the Zeltrech dimension surfing way.

She wakes up and she's seventeen years old again, and it's the day before she summons Archer in the 5th Holy Grail War.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on February 10, 2014, 12:36:11 AM
Hmm, that could be interesting. I presume she would be very much trying to save Sakura in that case, amongst other things.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Elf on February 10, 2014, 12:47:56 AM
Hmm, that could be interesting. I presume she would be very much trying to save Sakura in that case, amongst other things.

Yes, very much so.

Just with all of her power, she still doesn't know how to do that.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on February 10, 2014, 12:51:17 AM
Yeah....

Well, I would imagine that would be the main thrust of the story, possibly along perhaps with making Shirou hang around (although the two are somewhat linked). I'd imagine she'd want to keep Archer, but that is something even seventeen-year-old Rin could have done had he not died....
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Elf on February 10, 2014, 12:53:55 AM
Well, actually Archer being there opens up a lot of wounds for her, including a broken heart.  Especially since she realized he was Emiya Shirou years later. 

Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on February 10, 2014, 01:18:51 AM
Yeah, that makes sense, which is why I thought she'd probably want him to stay around. Losing him is something she'd regret, although her sister would probably take top priority....
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Andoriol on February 12, 2014, 02:35:34 AM
So! I have a concept for a fic (Not sure if I should post it here or into the Crossover section):

Take a normal, living person, a relatively normal fan of the Type-Moon works... and have them summoned as a Servant in the Holy Grail War. Every time they fail, which obviously they will, they get sent careening through the Kaleidoscope into other realms of fiction before eventually returning to being summoned as a Servant in the Holy Grail War. Each time they go careening through the Multiverse, they go to an even larger number of universes before returning to the Holy Grail War.



I also have a question to get thoughts on, at what point a person crosses the line from 'person' to 'Heroic Spirit', and at what point they start getting 'squeezed' into a Class Container, but I'm not sure where to post such a question, should I do so here or in another Thread?
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Alice on February 12, 2014, 04:28:28 AM
I also have a question to get thoughts on, at what point a person crosses the line from 'person' to 'Heroic Spirit', and at what point they start getting 'squeezed' into a Class Container, but I'm not sure where to post such a question, should I do so here or in another Thread?

General Nasuverse questions go in here: http://darksidemoon.net/SMF_forum/index.php/topic,96.0.html (http://darksidemoon.net/SMF_forum/index.php/topic,96.0.html)

Though I can try and answer it in here (though it's probably better to get confirmation in the thread I just linked, as I'm basically going off the top of my head.)

Once someone qualifies to become a Heroic Spirit, I believe they enter the Throne at death. But since the Throne defies time, their spirit can still be accessed at any point in time by the Grail ritual.

As for the class container, I believe that happens once they're summoned into the War itself. Who they were in life merely determines what containers they are best suited for and are likely to be summoned in.

Also, welcome to the forum! :)
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Andoriol on February 12, 2014, 04:37:32 AM
I also have a question to get thoughts on, at what point a person crosses the line from 'person' to 'Heroic Spirit', and at what point they start getting 'squeezed' into a Class Container, but I'm not sure where to post such a question, should I do so here or in another Thread?

General Nasuverse questions go in here: http://darksidemoon.net/SMF_forum/index.php/topic,96.0.html (http://darksidemoon.net/SMF_forum/index.php/topic,96.0.html)

Though I can try and answer it in here (though it's probably better to get confirmation in the thread I just linked, as I'm basically going off the top of my head.)

Once someone qualifies to become a Heroic Spirit, I believe they enter the Throne at death. But since the Throne defies time, their spirit can still be accessed at any point in time by the Grail ritual.

As for the class container, I believe that happens once they're summoned into the War itself. Who they were in life merely determines what containers they are best suited for and are likely to be summoned in.

Also, welcome to the forum! :)
Thank you!

And yeah, I understand that to be a 'proper' Heroic Spirit you have to be, y'know, a spirit (Aka, dead), but I'm referring to the point where someone goes from "Human" to "Hero" to "Hero Worthy of the Throne" given a set of Fate stats for an OC. I don't want to put the stats here without being in the right place since it's kind of an info-dump.  :-[
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Alice on February 12, 2014, 05:15:32 AM
No problem at all. :)

And ahh, gotcha. Hmm, that I'd probably have to look up, my brain's a bit frazzled tonight. ^^" If you post your question in the Questions thread though, you'll probably get a more detailed answer. :)
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on February 12, 2014, 03:01:16 PM
So! I have a concept for a fic (Not sure if I should post it here or into the Crossover section):

Take a normal, living person, a relatively normal fan of the Type-Moon works... and have them summoned as a Servant in the Holy Grail War. Every time they fail, which obviously they will, they get sent careening through the Kaleidoscope into other realms of fiction before eventually returning to being summoned as a Servant in the Holy Grail War. Each time they go careening through the Multiverse, they go to an even larger number of universes before returning to the Holy Grail War.



I also have a question to get thoughts on, at what point a person crosses the line from 'person' to 'Heroic Spirit', and at what point they start getting 'squeezed' into a Class Container, but I'm not sure where to post such a question, should I do so here or in another Thread?

Hmm, OK, how exactly do you intend for this to work? I'm assuming the person will pick up abilities as they go along, but how will that happen? I think some more explanation might be helpful here.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Andoriol on February 12, 2014, 04:25:00 PM
Normal person meets an alternate (and drunk, and dickish) Zeltretch and tees them off. Cue getting cursed and cast out into the Kaleidoscope. But this is a guy with A rank luck, and it shows that he doesn't get royally, *royally* screwed over.

He gets thrown into other realities, but usually near other young heroes or people just getting started as being heroes, or occasionally in the place of the normal hero for that world (near the protagonists of other series or replacing the protagonist of a series) and he struggles with them, saved by others or his own luck and growing skill, until he randomly goes careening through the Kaleidoscope again until he ends back up at the Holy Grail War, summoned as Archer again.

Each time he leaves the Holy Grail War, he visits the same dimensions in the same order, but adds more to each time. Sort of like a Pendulum that gets more mass at the apex of each swing, he travels further through the multiverse before ending back up at the same places.

The only reason this guy survives early on is his A rank luck. He outright, straight up gets fucking lucky, no two ways about it. He ends up with people that train him or train with him  in low-power / low-ridiculousness settings at the beginning, and its only later, as he becomes more competent, that he ends up thrown into more dangerous worlds/settings (aside from F/SN).

This guy also has that 'Prodigy' skill, which I like to think of 'Shonen Hero Power', because it represents his ability to learn at a ridiculous pace (While not as ridiculous as learning a skill that takes decades to master in a manner of days, it's still unfair).

Does that answer your question? :)
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Elf on March 16, 2014, 06:45:29 AM
Speaking of Harry Dresden, what about a Fusion between the Dresden-verse and the Nasu-verse? I mean, they even use the same terms, just Dresden-verse is a lot more OP.

The White Council is a rouge branch of the Mage's Association, just that the Mage's Association doesn't have the means to really stop the White Council. That and the Mage's Association apparently hates America, and the White Council is more moral fag in is approach than the Association's "Keep up the Masquerade At All Costs" approach.

Anyway! Post good end Heaven's Feel, the Association finally decides that all this supernatural crap that keeps happening in America, specifically Chicago, needs to be investigated. So sort of against her will, Tohsaka Rin is the one sent to find out what has been happening. And boy, there was a whole world she hadn't even been aware of.

Especially when she ends up crossing paths with the one Wizard in the phone book, one Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden.

This could be currently with the books, or maybe even in the beginning or middle of the Dresden Files.

Some fun stuff could be Rin trying to take Mister home with her, and Bob trying to get a peek under her skirt.

And maybe Rin and Harry lamenting on their lack of love lives.

"There's this one guy I just can't get over. One version's long dead and the other's married my sister."

"My last girlfriend is fighting from turning into a vampire and had to leave me." (Or "My last girlfriend became a vampire and I had to kill her to save our daughter." Depending on when in the book series this is set.)
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on March 16, 2014, 10:57:59 PM
Hmm, this looks interesting as a concept. I don't know much about the Dresdenverse, though, so it's hard for me to give much comment on that aspect.

Certainly Rin is not the typical magus. I'm not sure why exactly they'd pick her of all people to go, but I guess it makes sense for the story. Also, if stuff gets bad, she does have Rider to call on (in principle at least)....
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Elf on March 22, 2014, 08:10:07 PM
Certainly Rin is not the typical magus. I'm not sure why exactly they'd pick her of all people to go, but I guess it makes sense for the story. Also, if stuff gets bad, she does have Rider to call on (in principle at least)....

Actually, Harry himself has enough power to hold his own against Servants.  He was sort of "bred" to do that.  (His mother made sure that there were conditions met with his conception to give him the power to sort of punch out Cuthulu if needed.)  I mean, against Saber, Lancer, and Berserker he'd be hosed, but he'd definitely give Rider and Archer a good fight if not outright beat Caster.  Especially when he's the Winter Knight.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on March 22, 2014, 08:31:28 PM
Isn't he a mage? Because Rider has Rank B Magic Resistance, so I think it's unlikely he could do anything much to her. I'm certainly not sure why he would be able to take on Rider but not Lancer....
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Andoriol on March 23, 2014, 12:40:52 AM
Kinda with Cherry here, Harry's a badass powerhouse (Even compared to Rin), but Servants are, well, Servants. Rider, properly supplied, is absurdly fast and tough and can summon THE Pegasus to whoop your ass. And as Cherry Lover said, B-Rank Magic Resistance = Yeah, you're boned.

Also, they use the same terms a lot, but the Dresdenverse masquerade is far thinner and in more danger. They're practically still in the Age of the Gods what with the amount of monsters running around. Sure you have VAMPIRES, things that resemble Dead Apostles (the Red Court) and the White Court, but you also have more easily accessed demons as well as relatively common Fae, something that doesn't really happen in current Nasuverse. So it'll be hard to mesh those two things.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on March 23, 2014, 12:47:41 AM
Kinda with Cherry here, Harry's a badass powerhouse (Even compared to Rin), but Servants are, well, Servants. Rider, properly supplied, is absurdly fast and tough and can summon THE Pegasus to whoop your ass. And as Cherry Lover said, B-Rank Magic Resistance = Yeah, you're boned.

Yeah, and Rider under Sakura is definitely "properly supplied", especially post-HF.

Quote
Also, they use the same terms a lot, but the Dresdenverse masquerade is far thinner and in more danger. They're practically still in the Age of the Gods what with the amount of monsters running around. Sure you have VAMPIRES, things that resemble Dead Apostles (the Red Court) and the White Court, but you also have more easily accessed demons as well as relatively common Fae, something that doesn't really happen in current Nasuverse. So it'll be hard to mesh those two things.

Yeah, I remember there being issues with meshing the two things when I discussed a previous crossover between the two. Unfortunately, though, I'm not aware enough of the story to really say.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Certis Baliano on March 25, 2014, 06:32:54 PM
Actually, Harry himself has enough power to hold his own against Servants.  He was sort of "bred" to do that.  (His mother made sure that there were conditions met with his conception to give him the power to sort of punch out Cuthulu if needed.)


Whoa, what? Where did you read that from?
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Elf on March 29, 2014, 05:09:21 PM
Whoa, what? Where did you read that from?

They talk about it in the books.  Maggie made sure Harry was conceived/born under conditions to be able to fight Outsiders.  Which is one of the reasons he's so freaking powerful at making stuff blow up.



We really don't know that much about magecraft in the Americas in the Nasuverse, but it has to exist.  Native Americans for one thing had their own mystical practices and abilities, even though chances they call it "Medicine" and not "magecraft" and then there were probably European settlers who were magi.  Not to mention, because the Association gives pretty much zero fucks about 'Murica, it wouldn't be too hard to reason that some mages with sealing designations ran across the pond.

There could be some stuff like the Native American Medicine Men and Women thought the handful of magi were abominations, witches, and against the natural order.  Which, considering magecraft that's not too far off.  The magi are like, "These heathens are fucked in the head!" because the Medicine People give zero fucks about reaching the root and use their abilities to help their fellow man and to protect nature's balance.  With a few exceptions that are pretty much hunted down and killed when possible because Creator doesn't buy that shit. Hey The Ravenmocker myth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raven_Mocker) had to come from somewhere.

So then of course you get some of the sealed magi who still want to reach the Root go into hiding and try to do things to preserve their blood line.  So there's a lot of inbreeding and even stealing Medicine People to freshen up the bloodline, improve Circuits, and make sure the offspring have a better affinity with American soil.  This way, you get a lot of abominations.

Also, with the lack of an Association or Atlas presence in the States makes it a sort of haven for the Non-Ancestor Dead Apostles to set up shop and start chomping on virgins.  Or for less morally inclined magi to start doing experiments like Kiritsugu's dad did.

So, to tie this back into the Nasuverse proper, there are a couple ways to do this.  Post Arcuied's true end in Tsukhime.  Shiki hears about that there may be someone in the North American continent somewhere who has the means to quell Arc's blood lust.  Either two things could happen- a Dead Apostle could have set up a trap to kill Shiki in a far away land or, as someone pointed out, he runs into another family of monster hunters because hey, the Americas probably have their own share of Phantasmal Beasts too.

Except they're inbred, gun toting, not quite Neo Nazi rednecks.

Second idea for this is the rather simple, Loreli goes on a vampire hunt after getting word that one of the Ancestors is making shop in the States or Canada.

Third idea could be post Fate or even UBW.  A community is being plagued by Magical Threat X.  Be it just some douche magi, a Dead Apostle, or the aforementioned Ravenmocker.  There is a fairly young Medicine Man/Woman who lives in this town, but is way over their head.  However, they had traveled a lot over the past years as their journey as a shaman to see how mystic forces around the world work.  When they were in London they heard about or maybe even met this ginger Japanese guy who can pull swords out of thin air with a hero complex.

Desperate, and because they saw that pretty much all other "proper" magi are jerks, find a way to contact Emiya Shirou and ask for help.

If this is post UBW-True, Rin could go with him and just boggle at all the differences between American "Medicine" and traditional magecraft.  Not to mention, she'd probably find it fascinating that a majority of Medicine practitioners use crystals and gemstones as well.  Also, Shirou's fascinated by the fact that the person who called him for help specifically helps others with their abilities and really doesn't use them for their own gain.  Which would totally confuse Rin.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Xamusel on June 05, 2014, 10:39:54 PM
So, normally, I'm a crossover writer... that should be made abundantly clear by either my FFN profile or most of my works on the net. However, to counter this fact, I had come up with a non-crossover idea for once. To understand the source of the inspiration, mind you, one must look for BloodRavenFan's story Second Chance, where Sakura summons Medea a year before the Fourth War, and is saved from Matou Zouken's hands... but, much like most of the guy's works, he might make things darker than Urobuchi.

Er, anyway, my idea is simple: Rin teaches Sakura how to use her Circuits for the first time a week before Tokiomi considers giving Sakura to the Matous. Tokiomi, upon seeing this, decides to have Rin be Sakura's teacher in Magecraft... until Sakura can no longer learn the family school. In which case... the idea is rather open-ended in that event. However, I'm going to make this clear: no, Sakura isn't going to the Matous... EVER!!
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on June 05, 2014, 10:47:31 PM
Well, I really like the concept, and I think it would make for a great setting if the two sisters were able to grow up together and work as a team. However, I can't see why Tokiomi would change his mind about giving Sakura to the Matou family just because Rin had started teaching her magecraft. If that's all that Tokiomi wanted, he could have taught her himself. He wanted her to be the head of a family, so she wouldn't just be in Rin's shadow (magically-speaking, I mean).
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Xamusel on June 05, 2014, 11:19:16 PM
No, see, Tokiomi didn't even come to that decision yet by the time Sakura started learning Magecraft. That's the main part of this. He wanted to see to it that Sakura learned as much as she could (in this story), then would do what he could to take her to a more appropriate location to learn from, hopefully from a non-Matou family that was more morally aligned with the good guys of reality.

Of course, Rin, being the big sister in this story that she is, decides to help her family out, in that she has the idea to convince her parents that Sakura could learn better outside of the country... possibly in (and this is not me being biased) America.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on June 05, 2014, 11:34:02 PM
No, see, Tokiomi didn't even come to that decision yet by the time Sakura started learning Magecraft. That's the main part of this. He wanted to see to it that Sakura learned as much as she could (in this story), then would do what he could to take her to a more appropriate location to learn from, hopefully from a non-Matou family that was more morally aligned with the good guys of reality.

Well, again, if that was his goal, why didn't he teach her from the beginning?

Quote
Of course, Rin, being the big sister in this story that she is, decides to help her family out, in that she has the idea to convince her parents that Sakura could learn better outside of the country... possibly in (and this is not me being biased) America.

Why would Rin want to send Sakura to the other side of the world, where absolutely no-one can watch over her and they can basically never see each other?
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Xamusel on June 06, 2014, 02:10:42 AM
...okay, perhaps I should rethink this one, and over the course of at least a few days.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Kat on June 10, 2014, 10:42:11 AM
Quote
Why would Rin want to send Sakura to the other side of the world, where absolutely no-one can watch over her and they can basically never see each other?

Skype.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on June 10, 2014, 12:55:16 PM
Quote
Why would Rin want to send Sakura to the other side of the world, where absolutely no-one can watch over her and they can basically never see each other?

Skype.

Rin :P

Also, 1990's, but that's less funny....
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Kat on June 10, 2014, 08:16:50 PM
Phones.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: lantzblades on June 11, 2014, 12:25:52 AM
Long distance charges
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Kat on June 11, 2014, 01:56:32 AM
It is becoming cheaper and cheaper.

Let's face, it boils down to certain fans being discontent with prospect of Sakura being independent from Rin and striking it on her own outside Japan.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on June 11, 2014, 01:58:00 AM
Why don't you try actually reading the thing I'm replying to before making utterly moronic and ill-informed comments in response to what I said?
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Kat on February 15, 2015, 10:28:20 AM
If Second Grail War happened in 1860s, then maybe Gintama x FSN crack fic is not so crack.
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Cherry Lover on February 15, 2015, 04:33:25 PM
Eh, what?
Title: Re: Fanfic ideas thread
Post by: Kat on February 16, 2015, 12:27:23 AM
Gintama is set in 1860s, except that Japanese was opened to the world by gunboat diplomacy of aliens instead of Commodore Perry.