Dark Side of the Moon
Unlimited Creativity Works => Role Playing => Topic started by: Alice on January 28, 2014, 07:17:06 PM
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So I actually was thinking a bit about the whole Grail War in Cross Effects thing, and randomly came up with a concept that might actually be pretty cool. ...Also, forgive me if this OP initially comes off as a jumbled mess, this is more of the Drafting Phase thread than anything, plus I'm stupid enough to write this when half conscious. So here it goes anyway!
So yeah, Grail War RPs. They happen. But one thing I honestly think they could benefit from is some good old fashioned player cooperation beyond the whole allies thing. Honestly, the whole thing with Servant and Master teams being played by the same person or one being played by the player while the other being played by the GM removes something of a more... interesting element of the whole concept in my eyes. So here's my brilliant idea that according to Mike actually happened before in the distant past but I wasn't there to see that so eh.
Each Master and Servant on an individual team is controlled by separate players, forcing the two to collaborate and cooperate with each other in order to win the Grail. Means of course will need to be devised to get around the sheer number of players needed, but yeah. That's it. And it's honestly one small difference that I think will make things *much* more interesting.
Details and stuff? I'll let you guys chime in on that. I don't think it's a good idea to specify a War or even a Brand Spanking New Free Form War without general details being hammered out first. I'll update the OP with various details, such as who'd be up for GMing, more solid ideas as to how this will all work, etc. It's fairly ambitious and big, but hey, with how well Cross Effects is apparently working out, why not? Could be worth a shot.
Established things:
GM: Arch-Magos Winter
Players:
Alice
Daiki
Cherry Lover
Milbunk
Soldat der Trauer
Nachos
Elf
Lycodrake
Ambiguous_Ayakashi
Mooncake
Servant Class Availability:
Saber: Open
Archer: Taken
Lancer: Taken
Rider: Taken
Caster: Open
Berserker: Open
Assassin: Taken
Master Slots:
There are 3 Master slots remaining.
Rules Stuff:
OK, some basic rules updates -
>Non-Hassan assassins allowed.
>Berserker and his/her Master will likely be played by the same person, and I'm considering allowing the same person to play a master/servant pair that isn't this. Or I'll play Berserker. Either way.
>First come first served for Master slots; once those are all gone they are all gone. We've got three people who've submitted Master sheets. Better move fast if you want one.
Settings Stuff:
And now a little setting information.
Basically - shit got real during WWII. The War scheduled during that time (the third war) went off without a hitch, despite the possible threat of a theft of the grail. And so the three families breathed a sigh of relief... only to have it blow up in their faces in 1946. The American occupation of Japan was a time of chaos and confusion among many Japanese magi, and the Tohsaka were no exception. So when a group of American magi managed to steal the grail, it wasn't noticed for a good twenty years - enough time for the group to set the ritual up in another location. The panicked families attempted nearly every route possible to discover its resting place, but the secret had died with the men who'd moved the grail. And what a location it was.
The North American West had always been a spot relatively untouched by the magus association. Possessing little to no authority over these magi on the very edge of their domain, the Association's basic system of power, the Second Owner model, was rarely in place in many western cities. As such, they became havens for renegades and Sealing Designates, families forced out of their dominions, and other assorted scum of the magical world. And it was here that the Grail was repurposed.
The Black Hills have always been a hotbed of spiritual power, and unclaimed leylines. In fact, similar to Fuyuki, a ley line convergence of significant spiritual power was found within it, the perfect home for the ritual to be transplanted. This convergence point centers on Mount Rushmore, a national monument and symbolic structure of America itself. A lucky circumstance lead to the rediscovery of the grail, fifteen years after the ritual was supposed to have taken place. The transplant delayed the War, but with five years left on the clock before the ritual would trigger again, the rush began.
That was nearly five years ago.
This is the siren call of the west. This is the clash of heroes on soil none of them tread before. This is the Fourth Heavens Feel, and who ever wins, one thing is certain - this will not end the struggle over this miracle.
Einzberns - Currently going crazy looking for someone to throw their weight behind that will actually give them the grail and or they can easily betray and not have anyone give a shit about that.
Matou - Depending on what happens here, we could go several ways. I was thinking the family actually recovered, after some members managed to slip out of Zouken's control and flee to Sanfran. So we've got two 'Matou' familys' - the zouken controlled japanese branch, and the Makari branch, the exiles. There's also a few family members hailing from Eastern Europe, but that's besides the point.
Tohsaka - Pretty much nothing has changed, in many ways (Kariya is still beta even in an alternate universe). Their ego took a major hit, but as they arguably 'won' the last grail war (And got a Finnish waifu out of it) they aren't all that concerned really. Rin's currently tearing it up in the Clock Tower. Sakura's a schoolteacher. Never heard about magic, doesn't even know her husband is a magi.
Kirei - Was dispatched to the Mount Rushmore area. He's not currently acting as a priest.
Kiritsugu- He lost a leg to a landmine in Cambodia about five years ago. The magus community breathed a collective sigh of relief when they heard he was retiring. Maiya though is... an unknown. Nobody is sure where she is. Kerry isn't saying either.
Uryuu- He ended up caught by the MP's on an army base he managed to perform his last bit of art on. He hung.
Waver- Last time anyone heard from him, it was in Chicago. He's made a name for himself a bit actually, as a freelance alchemist.
Shirou- He's not a full on magus, but he's not like he was in F/SN. Practices in Fuyuki. Without the fire, he's... actually done rather well for himself. He's currently a store owner of a bike shop - motorbike.
Bazett- She's... an unknown. Even to me, I'm not sure what's happened to her. She's still an enforcer though.
The city this will take place is Rapid City, Ohio. For an non-'Muricans and any 'Muricans that want to get more familiar with the place, here's a wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_City,_South_Dakota (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_City,_South_Dakota)
Sheets:
Alright, Master Sheet Time.
Name:
Gender:
Age:
Origin:
Affinity:
Magical Tradition:
Now the next stats go from A to E. You start at D for each one (Except for Crest Generation, which goes down to F and starts at C, and Master Potential which starts at E), and get 5 points to distribute. Each rank up costs one point. You can take away from starting stats for extra points. It costs one point to increase each attribute.
Circuit Quantity:
Circuit Quality:
Master Potential:
Crest (Generation):
Circuit Quality and Quantity dictate your potential as a magus - along with Crest . The higher your Crest, the more prestige your character has in the magical world, and the more family specific spells you have access to. For a price (one point) you can also choose a Sorcery Trait for your master. For another point, you can choose a nonstandard element (One that isn't one of the following: Fire, Earth, Wind, Water, Spirit, Metal) or a second of the standard.
Every point of Master Potential gives you a chance of increasing a Servant attribute.
So for example, you could have the following stat spread -
Circuit Quantity: C
Circuit Quantity: C
Crest: C
Master Potential: C
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Well, the idea looks interesting, certainly. Whether we can get enough players for it I'm not sure, and I'm not sure who would be the GM (assuming you don't want to be). Having collaboration between master and servant is a good idea, definitely. Although I would assume that it would be possible for a servant to kill their master if necessary, and for a defeated master to theoretically obtain another servant (assuming they're not killed or taken to the church).
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Yeah, it's possible for a Servant to kill their Master in this case, though it'd probably not be cool to do so right off the bat. Getting a new Servant or contracting with one without a Master are also viable.
And yeah, as for GM-ing, I'd rather not in this case, but if no one else is willing to step up, I can take the mantle.
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I'll GM.
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You get to go into the OP then my good man. :3
Now to actually wrangle up some players.
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Will join.
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Happy to have ya~ :3
Up in the OP you go.
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I guess I should probably actually confirm my interest too. So, yeah, I'm in.
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Huh just now noticed this but I'd be interested if you could find enough people.
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I'll toss you into the OP too then. :)
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http://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthread.php/495-The-Holy-Grill-War-Disscussion-Thread-%28BL-members-as-masters-and-Servants%29 (http://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthread.php/495-The-Holy-Grill-War-Disscussion-Thread-%28BL-members-as-masters-and-Servants%29)
This is what Mike was talking about, methinks.
Also: greetings!
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Well, that's one example, but not one I participated in. Mil did something similar with us playing the main FSN characters, and I think it's been done a few more times too.
Also, hi.
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Welp, I've got nothing better to do on Beast's Lair (DAMN YOU, NOTES), so I offer myself as a player candidate for this.
I really have just one question: are we going to keep the Grail War "rules" from Fate/Stay Night, or are the other Fate series also being thought about? I've talked about this before w/ a few people, but the whole "single clergyman as administrator" makes no functional sense aside from political protection for a defeated-but-living Master, and even that's not absolute.
Unless you've got someone of Kirei-tier ability, that is, since he has a record in both the Church and the Mage Association that can be looked up.
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I would at least like it to keep the FSN method of organising the war (i.e. you just fight whoever you like, and masters can fight but don't die automatically if their servant dies), the Extra approach is too inflexible for my liking and results in people dying just for the sake of it. I'm not sure of the exact details, though.
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@Mike: Oh, for sure, yes. But I'm speaking more of little tidbits like what I posted. Another would be the Assassin dilemma: we gonna go w/ hard F/SN ruling on "only Hassan aside from fakes, huh-huh~" or would that be more open as in F/E and F/A?
B/c remember, Herakles is apparently eligible for Assassin, but we never get to see that in canon.
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Since there's no rules set in stone yet, that's all still open for changing. :) This is part of why I didn't define any specific Grail War or lay down how this Grail War would work just yet- I ultimately wanted what would be the best role playing experience with this setup, which I decided to help determine with feedback in this thread.
So yup, all possible Grail Wars are being considered as either playable or inspiration for a more freeform War at this point. :) The Assassin thing might happen for sure so the Assassin players have a lot more choice for who they can play as. The "clergyman admin" thing is also open for change, but what form that would take would probably depend on the ultimate layout and setting for the war itself.
Also, welcome to the forum and the RP! :D In the OP you go. :3
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Awww, shucks. Danke.
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I'm joining, but only if I get to call dibs on assassin.
Because m-muh Hassan
Seriously Assassin is the only cool servant, fuck big fights I'll stick to shadows
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Mags said that he's doing a lottery setup. If you luck out and have an appropriate focus for the summoning, you get who/what you want.
Otherwise, HEART OF THE CARDS.
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Nachos gets tossed into the OP then! :D
And oh dear, lottery, huh?
...Surely with my super moe luck this can only lead to good things! :V
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THEN I will make a really sucky servant if I don't get assassin and end up having to hide in shadows instead of stalk from them.
The power of flexible thinking~
And I'll make (not)solid snake if I get a master
BASES COVERED
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Mags said that he's doing a lottery setup. If you luck out and have an appropriate focus for the summoning, you get who/what you want.
Otherwise, HEART OF THE CARDS.
Presumably the choice of servants is down to the person playing that servant, though.
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Unless he's conspiring with a gaggle of history/mythology students to make a huge roulette with every possible servant ever, I'd say that's the case.
I'd imagine he has to give the thumbs up though, so no counter guardian Dave from the year 2167 from when he made a contract with Alaya to fight Aliens with nothing but his fists and a toaster.
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Yep. This is also because I'm not sure we'll reach 14 people in any reasonable amount of time. We've got six at the moment, enough for masters. While Alice's goal is very good, and something I'd like to explore sometime, this isn't the best forum to do so. Instead, the plan is we'll make everyone a Servant and a Master... but not their own master Servant pair.
As is I'll be taking sheet submissions for every class, along with making my own. I'm hoping to get at least 35 servants, 5 from every class. I'll basically from there do a hero roullete style thing. This way, we get a large variety of possibilities, and makes the actual servant selection something you have to guess at... though I'll throw in a group of artifacts to select from if you so wish to take one and not trust your destiny to fate's fickle rolls.
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Color me interested.
Man, I have an awesome idea for a female Archer.
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Hells yeah~ :3 Into the OP with you! :D
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Huh so you could be both your ally and your enemy what a weird but interesting way to do things.
Question, how do you plan on preventing the RP from stalling out like what has happened with so many other grail war rp's?
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Mags is one of those nWoD players who goes on and on about the various games, so I simply suggested something that would fit w/ that kind of background.
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Well, the easiest way would be something I'm keeping hidden up my sleeve, along with the setting.
Get those servant sheets going folks, because I've got a load of surprises in store for you~
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So did you have a Master and/or Servant Sheet premade or do you just want us to use whatever we feel like?
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Well, I'm certainly interested in this RP. :3
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Glad to hear it. :3 I'll throw you in the OP then! :D
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Yep. This is also because I'm not sure we'll reach 14 people in any reasonable amount of time. We've got six at the moment, enough for masters. While Alice's goal is very good, and something I'd like to explore sometime, this isn't the best forum to do so. Instead, the plan is we'll make everyone a Servant and a Master... but not their own master Servant pair.
Well, I think we will get more than 6, but I'm not sure we can manage 14....
As is I'll be taking sheet submissions for every class, along with making my own. I'm hoping to get at least 35 servants, 5 from every class. I'll basically from there do a hero roullete style thing. This way, we get a large variety of possibilities, and makes the actual servant selection something you have to guess at... though I'll throw in a group of artifacts to select from if you so wish to take one and not trust your destiny to fate's fickle rolls.
How are you going to make it work, though? Presumably you can only pick one servant from each player. Also, I doubt everyone is going to have the time, inclination or ideas to make a ton of servants....
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Heh not to brag but my collection of Servant ideas is over 108. (But I think this time I will do a Lancer.)
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So did you have a Master and/or Servant Sheet premade or do you just want us to use whatever we feel like?
No Master sheet made at the moment, but just format the Servant sheets according to the standard template in F/SN
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Though they're on B'sL, I haven a Servant for every Class except Saber.
Sadly my Assassin isn't a Hassan, so...
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Alright sent in my Servant sheet.
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@Mags: Since it comes up in canon and some fanon examples w/ a degree of relevance, I had some ideas for if you wanted to integrate the whole fluff aspect regarding Master compatibility where it concerns Servant stats.
What if you rolled a d6 for every stat, where odds = change and evens = no change, and then roll again to determine if the number of affected stats (if any came up) get buffed or debuffed?
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@Mags: Since it comes up in canon and some fanon examples w/ a degree of relevance, I had some ideas for if you wanted to integrate the whole fluff aspect regarding Master compatibility where it concerns Servant stats.
What if you rolled a d6 for every stat, where odds = change and evens = no change, and then roll again to determine if the number of affected stats (if any came up) get buffed or debuffed?
I was planning to have modifiers based on numbers there, due to the master sheets.
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So uh, how is progress everyone?
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Working on getting a basic Master sheet made up. And with it an introductory post to the actual IC thread and everything.
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Cool, cool, just checking. Day's of silence makes me start to worry about a RP regardless of how busy it was.
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Alright, Master Sheet Time.
Name:
Gender:
Age:
Origin:
Affinity:
Magical Tradition:
Now the next stats go from A to E. You start at D for each one (Except for Crest Generation, which goes down to F and starts at C, and Master Potential which starts at E), and get 5 points to distribute. Each rank up costs one point. You can take away from starting stats for extra points. It costs one point to increase each attribute.
Circuit Quantity:
Circuit Quality:
Master Potential:
Crest (Generation):
Circuit Quality and Quantity dictate your potential as a magus - along with Crest . The higher your Crest, the more prestige your character has in the magical world, and the more family specific spells you have access to. For a price (one point) you can also choose a Sorcery Trait for your master. For another point, you can choose a nonstandard element (One that isn't one of the following: Fire, Earth, Wind, Water, Spirit, Metal) or a second of the standard.
Every point of Master Potential gives you a chance of increasing a Servant attribute.
So for example, you could have the following stat spread -
Circuit Quantity: C
Circuit Quantity: C
Crest: C
Master Potential: C
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Do we have a setting, backstory etc. for this yet?
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Yeah, but put short that isn't important to the actual master sheets in any way. Go nuts.
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Well, it is in terms of designing a backstory etc. for them.
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It isn't in Fuyuki, that's all I'm saying for the moment. Honestly, it really doesn't matter
It's an AU though - This is the Fourth War; a little later than scheduled, due to the Grail getting nicked.
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And now a little setting information.
Basically - shit got real during WWII. The War scheduled during that time (the third war) went off without a hitch, despite the possible threat of a theft of the grail. And so the three families breathed a sigh of relief... only to have it blow up in their faces in 1946. The American occupation of Japan was a time of chaos and confusion among many Japanese magi, and the Tohsaka were no exception. So when a group of American magi managed to steal the grail, it wasn't noticed for a good twenty years - enough time for the group to set the ritual up in another location. The panicked families attempted nearly every route possible to discover its resting place, but the secret had died with the men who'd moved the grail. And what a location it was.
The North American West had always been a spot relatively untouched by the magus association. Possessing little to no authority over these magi on the very edge of their domain, the Association's basic system of power, the Second Owner model, was rarely in place in many western cities. As such, they became havens for renegades and Sealing Designates, families forced out of their dominions, and other assorted scum of the magical world. And it was here that the Grail was repurposed.
The Black Hills have always been a hotbed of spiritual power, and unclaimed leylines. In fact, similar to Fuyuki, a ley line convergence of significant spiritual power was found within it, the perfect home for the ritual to be transplanted. This convergence point centers on Mount Rushmore, a national monument and symbolic structure of America itself. A lucky circumstance lead to the rediscovery of the grail, fifteen years after the ritual was supposed to have taken place. The transplant delayed the War, but with five years left on the clock before the ritual would trigger again, the rush began.
That was nearly five years ago.
This is the siren call of the west. This is the clash of heroes on soil none of them tread before. This is the Fourth Heavens Feel, and who ever wins, one thing is certain - this will not end the struggle over this miracle.
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Greater Grail under Mount Rushmore.
oh god yes xD
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Have all the Servant spots been taken already?
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No; for that matter I haven't received many Servant sheets.
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No; for that matter I haven't received many Servant sheets.
Since I've seen the "only Hassan Assassins" thing, I'm sending you a certain Rider I designed. :'333c
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Out of curiosity, which spots are taken, just to be clear? If possible, could you people not only name the participants, but which character/class they've taken or reserved?
As in, I'd like to know which of the Servant Classes are free, for I'd find it a pleasure to be able to RP as one. I have quite a few designs brewing inside my head already.
P.S: Hello there, don't pay me much heed, as I accidentally stumbled into this... uhm... 'colorful' place we could say. Some of you people might've already noticed me floating around on BL.
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We're full up on Masters (First come first served) but there's still Servant spots.
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Which ones? So that I don't make a Servant Sheet for a Class that already has a good contender.
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Welcome to the forum and the RP! :) In the OP you go.
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Welcome to the forum and the RP! :) In the OP you go.
Arigatou Gozaimasu~
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Which ones? So that I don't make a Servant Sheet for a Class that already has a good contender.
Fun fact - I'm randomizing that. You don't know what servant you're going to play, and neither do the Masters know what they're getting unless they go for a catalyst. So submit whatever sheet you want, because for all you know, you might get it.
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I don't know how I'd feel about playing someone else's character though.
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It's more for the...
Actually no, I found a fix for that. I was doing that more because it was an easy way to prevent someone from playing the same Master/Servant pair that they knew inside and out.
So yeah, now that we've got more than seven people, sure, I'll see if I can do that. I'd recommend doing one of every class though.
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I agree with randomizing which Master gets which Servant, but I don't know if I agree with randomizing what Servant we play. It's difficult to play someone else's character when we don't really know how to play them or who they really are. It'd limit us to playing canon Servants, which limits the pool a fair bit.
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@Yolf: Dude, you gotta let Ms. Alice know you are gonna be in this thing, else it won't show in the OP.
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It's more for the...
Actually no, I found a fix for that. I was doing that more because it was an easy way to prevent someone from playing the same Master/Servant pair that they knew inside and out.
So yeah, now that we've got more than seven people, sure, I'll see if I can do that. I'd recommend doing one of every class though.
If I may raise a point. That you listen to it or dismiss it is purely up to you.
I've been in Roleplaying sessions before, and no one can Roleplay a character better than the one that thought them up. The one that has built the history, the emotional profile and past of a character is the one that can put themselves the best "inside the character's skin".
Randomly giving a profile to some other player, and hoping that they can familiarize themselves with said character that they'll RP, might not be the most productive thing.
While Servant/Master Pairs should be kept unknown for fun and increasing the experience of "oh, so I've just met that person... how are they like?" I think that when people apply for a certain character, it should be for that character only.
Then, I'm quite the person that deeply likes "putting myself in another's shoes". I can't do that efficiently if I have to write a profile for all seven Servants.
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The problem is I'm trying to keep the servant selection random - if you're a Lancer, and you state you're a Lancer, then that ruins some of the fun.
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You could easily disclose that the "Lancer" spot has been taken.
Do not give names.
We'll have to guess.
But seeing what a few people have done already, I guess it's a bit late - or we could just erase some of the information.
The "Signed up players" list is already written, then write:
"Number of Master Spots left: 0"
"Classes left for applying: Saber, Caster, Rider"
IMPORTANT: Do not say which class you're applying for, just note that you're interested in joining. PM Malgos for applications and verrification
If that works for you?
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Hmm... the better method then may be to randomize the class, but not the character. So the player can still choose their character, but the random element is still there.
EDIT: Though that method could work too. :) ...I wrote this post before the one above me. ^^"
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Hmm... the better method then may be to randomize the class, but not the character. So the player can still choose their character, but the random element is still there.
This works far better. I'll put in a bunch of sheets as well. Hopefully we can start in the next week or so.
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Uh, so yes, is there a Master spot left? Regardless I have completed Servant sheets to send that someone might get some use out of.
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The problem would be that some Heroic Spirits can only fit certain Classes, unless you go about and do more history digging (more work for the GMs) to go justify how for example, a Lancer can end up being a Caster. Not all Heroic Spirits are versatile in terms of class selection.
Also, while we craft personal skills and Noble Phantasms, things would turn out pretty weird.
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The problem would be that some Heroic Spirits can only fit certain Classes, unless you go about and do more history digging (more work for the GMs) to go justify how for example, a Lancer can end up being a Caster. Not all Heroic Spirits are versatile in terms of class selection.
Also, while we craft personal skills and Noble Phantasms, things would turn out pretty weird.
Then make a couple of Servants. It's a simple solution.
Uh, so yes, is there a Master spot left? Regardless I have completed Servant sheets to send that someone might get some use out of.
It's just Servants now, though a few of the masters will need to double up.
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@Mags: By doubling up, you mean double Master arrangement like the 3rd-War Edelfedts, or canon 4th-War's team Lancer? B/c I'd be totally down working w/ someone like that.
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@Mags: By doubling up, you mean double Master arrangement like the 3rd-War Edelfedts, or canon 4th-War's team Lancer? B/c I'd be totally down working w/ someone like that.
No, I mean them playing a Servant and a Master. Just not the servant the Master has.
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Welcome to the RP YOLF! :3 In the OP you go too.
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@Mags: By doubling up, you mean double Master arrangement like the 3rd-War Edelfedts, or canon 4th-War's team Lancer? B/c I'd be totally down working w/ someone like that.
No, I mean them playing a Servant and a Master. Just not the servant the Master has.
...Is it still possible to try pleading w/ you for this anyway?
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Actually, did the Process of the Grail Getting Corrupted like in the "Canon" 3rd Heaven's Feel happen? Or was there no Avenger Fiasco?
I'm asking about that because if Avenger hasn't corrupted the Grail, then we cannot have the likes of Medea or Medusa (Anti-Heroes and the like).
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Actually, did the Process of the Grail Getting Corrupted like in the "Canon" 3rd Heaven's Feel happen? Or was there no Avenger Fiasco?
I'm asking about that because if Avenger hasn't corrupted the Grail, then we cannot have the likes of Medea or Medusa (Anti-Heroes and the like).
Probably still did; Avenger was the 1st of the 3rd War Servants killed in canon.
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by "you're full up on masters" do you mean seven peeps have already sent sheets in?
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Well, I'd assume that the first seven people would be sending in Master sheets, which would fill it up. Make sense?
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Yeah, makes sense
getting on that sheet then
And a couple of servant sheets
EDIT: Dumb question, but Origin as in the nasuverse term or origin as in origin story?
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I agree with randomizing which Master gets which Servant, but I don't know if I agree with randomizing what Servant we play. It's difficult to play someone else's character when we don't really know how to play them or who they really are. It'd limit us to playing canon Servants, which limits the pool a fair bit.
Yeah, I'd rather not RP someone else's character, honestly. It may well end up being someone I just can't play.
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Well there's a problem with someone else playing a character you made, especially if they're based on a Historical figure.
Say if I made a character based on Robert the Bruce, a bad assed Saber. Now I use Robert the Bruce because I fangirl Scotland. However let's say that NACHOS draws him and gives zero shits about how awesome Scotland and that period of history is. There would be a serious disconnect between the player and the character.
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Hmm time to bunker down and make a Master, I will admit I've always been better at making Servant's but I'll try my best.
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Well there's a problem with someone else playing a character you made, especially if they're based on a Historical figure.
Say if I made a character based on Robert the Bruce, a bad assed Saber. Now I use Robert the Bruce because I fangirl Scotland. However let's say that NACHOS draws him and gives zero shits about how awesome Scotland and that period of history is. There would be a serious disconnect between the player and the character.
Yeah, I can easily see situations where the player's interpretation of the character (especially a historical figure) will differ from the person who created them, causing them to at best bend what the sheet says and at worse outright break it. For example, I am not overly fond of Robert the Bruce, but would be rather more supportive of William Wallace, because Wallace was a genuine rebel who died (painfully) for his cause whereas Bruce was a somewhat-opportunistic nationalist who used his position to gain power. But, if I drew someone like William Wallace I would emphasise the whole "rebelling against authority" part and de-emphasise the nationalist part, because I consider nationalism to be idiotic but rebellion against oppressive authority to be a very positive thing.
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Well I wouldn't say the Servant selection has to be entirely random. Also for the issues mentioned, it's better if anyone playing a Servant has more than one character in mind that they'd like or be alright writing.
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>start writing backstory for my character
>End up writing an abridged family history from the first magus downwards to explain how their family works/why they're in murrica/why the character is how he is (it's genetic)/how their crest is filled incrementally across generations/so on
suffering
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>start writing backstory for my character
>End up writing an abridged family history from the first magus downwards to explain how their family works/why they're in murrica/why the character is how he is (it's genetic)/how their crest is filled incrementally across generations/so on
suffering
You. I like you. Follow this mans example.
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@Mags: Oi. So can people pair up as Masters, or are we restricted to doing vanilla single human?
ALSO, what are the bloody power levels for the Masters? B/c it seems tempting for someone to say they're gonna make a "vanilla" magus, and then they make a guy who's extended their lifespan a few decades, knows a bunch of martial arts styles (when they're European aristocracy!), comes from a lineage w/ oodles of old money, and uses magecraft that basically makes them Shang Tsun(g).
So, what do?
Also also, how does the Master sheet change if someone wanted to make a PC who doesn't have magic circuits?
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@Mags: Oi. So can people pair up as Masters, or are we restricted to doing vanilla single human?
ALSO, what are the bloody power levels for the Masters? B/c it seems tempting for someone to say they're gonna make a "vanilla" magus, and then they make a guy who's extended their lifespan a few decades, knows a bunch of martial arts styles (when they're European aristocracy!), comes from a lineage w/ oodles of old money, and uses magecraft that basically makes them Shang Tsun. SO, what do?
Also also, how does the Master sheet if someone wanted to make a PC who doesn't have magic circuits?
OK
First off, I'd veto that sort of sheet like crazy, rewrite it, send it back, and tell them what a shameful display they have performed, and act like a disapproving asian father. Put short, while you can go nuts, go nuts within reason. Consider Kayneth as a powerlevel limit.
For the second bit, all stats at F. Your servant is also going to get really nerfed.
EDIT:
For that matter you can't supply your servant. You'll have to find other methods to supply them with power.
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@Mags: Oi. So can people pair up as Masters, or are we restricted to doing vanilla single human?
ALSO, what are the bloody power levels for the Masters? B/c it seems tempting for someone to say they're gonna make a "vanilla" magus, and then they make a guy who's extended their lifespan a few decades, knows a bunch of martial arts styles (when they're European aristocracy!), comes from a lineage w/ oodles of old money, and uses magecraft that basically makes them Shang Tsun. SO, what do?
Also also, how does the Master sheet if someone wanted to make a PC who doesn't have magic circuits?
OK
First off, I'd veto that sort of sheet like crazy, rewrite it, send it back, and tell them what a shameful display they have performed, and act like a disapproving asian father. Put short, while you can go nuts, go nuts within reason. Consider Kayneth as a powerlevel limit.
For the second bit, all stats at F. Your servant is also going to get really nerfed.
Thank you, wanted to know the limits. Still haven't addressed the double-Master question, though.
So in short, no Atlas magi allowed? Really?
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For that matter you can't supply your servant. You'll have to find other methods to supply them with power.
LEWD.
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No, it's still possible. You just need to find other ways to supply your servant. You can't do it yourself (Easily), so their stats are going to be nerfed simply from lack of prana. You're an anchor, not a full on Master, despite command seal. So yes, you can have a master from Atlas. It just isn't as easy to do so.
As for the double master, you need someone willing to do that with you. Just saying.
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Technically, you need to have Circuits or something equivalent to be a proper Master, since you need some way to do the mana convertion to prana for the Servant.
Kuzuki had no circuits, but he was really just Caster's anchor as opposed to a proper master.
And most Atlas people don't have Circuits, so being worse at supporting a Servant sounds about right.
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Formalcraft, mebbe make a big circle to get the land to power your servant for you
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Don't you still need to have at least some circuits for Formalcraft? Or am I remembering that wrong?
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You still need to somehow supply power to that circle to get it working. And more. It's not the easiest option, but if you want to go for that, go ahead.
Basically, you're going Dark Souls mode that way.
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Basically, you're going Dark Souls mode that way.
Hopefully without murdering Priscilla. :V
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Wait my master is perfectly capable of powering his servant without sex
I'm just suggesting in soldat's general direction
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Basically, you're going Dark Souls mode that way.
Hopefully without murdering Priscilla. :V
But I needed to cut off that fluffy tail D:
Wait my master is perfectly capable of powering his servant without sex
I'm just suggesting in soldat's general direction
Sex isn't the only method...
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I know, I'm just being difficult on purpose. And stalling.
Send in our sheets when ready?
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But I needed to cut off that fluffy tail D:
You are dead to me.
Wait my master is perfectly capable of powering his servant without sex
Sex isn't the only method...
[/quote]
See? Lewd.
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But I needed to cut off that fluffy tail D:
You are dead to me.
Wait my master is perfectly capable of powering his servant without sex
Sex isn't the only method...
See? Lewd.
Achievements are a bitch.
I know, I'm just being difficult on purpose. And stalling.
Send in our sheets when ready?
Yep, send them in ASAP. The second you get them done.
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Sent
hope I didn't fuck up
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Nachos is Approved.
One Master Slot down. Six to go. And Nachos set the bar hardcore.
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Achievements are a bitch.
You cut off the fluffy dragoness' tail. MOST EVIL ACT
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I know she is the most fluffy of Dark Souls Waifu's but still. Needed it for an achievement. I'm sorry.
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Application sent. I suppose that all I have to do now is wait and pray.
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And sent, now to negotiate.
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Actually, I have a few questions concerning the RP's flow, if these have been hammered yet?
1) Will we take into account the fact that Servants tend to be summoned at different intervals?
2) Will we be playing alongside NPCs that might be as important - if not more important than players to the plot? A sort of central driving force? I'd imagine the Tohsaka might want their Grail back, or even, the Einzberns might not accept that Capitalist USA still has their treasure. *cough*
3) A Grail War just isn't Seven Masters and Seven Servants. Just like what we've seen, there are observers with agendas, civilians, passerbyes, and even sometimes, unexpected people that show up out of nowhere because GRAAAIIILLLL. Will we have a vast open world, or just limit ourselves to something that occurs 'normally'?
I do understand that some of these questions could break out some spoilers, so if there are indeed some spoilers, do point out (or not) that you'd rather not answer some questions.
I just have Point Zero on loop right now and feel like rubbing my branches as the beginning looms ahead...
EDIT:
Also, Alice, shouldn't you update the OP with some of the setting information that Malgos has provided?
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That I should. ^^"
Magos, do you mind putting a bunch of the settings stuff in one post for me so I can go ahead and toss it on up into the OP?
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And now a little setting information.
Basically - shit got real during WWII. The War scheduled during that time (the third war) went off without a hitch, despite the possible threat of a theft of the grail. And so the three families breathed a sigh of relief... only to have it blow up in their faces in 1946. The American occupation of Japan was a time of chaos and confusion among many Japanese magi, and the Tohsaka were no exception. So when a group of American magi managed to steal the grail, it wasn't noticed for a good twenty years - enough time for the group to set the ritual up in another location. The panicked families attempted nearly every route possible to discover its resting place, but the secret had died with the men who'd moved the grail. And what a location it was.
The North American West had always been a spot relatively untouched by the magus association. Possessing little to no authority over these magi on the very edge of their domain, the Association's basic system of power, the Second Owner model, was rarely in place in many western cities. As such, they became havens for renegades and Sealing Designates, families forced out of their dominions, and other assorted scum of the magical world. And it was here that the Grail was repurposed.
The Black Hills have always been a hotbed of spiritual power, and unclaimed leylines. In fact, similar to Fuyuki, a ley line convergence of significant spiritual power was found within it, the perfect home for the ritual to be transplanted. This convergence point centers on Mount Rushmore, a national monument and symbolic structure of America itself. A lucky circumstance lead to the rediscovery of the grail, fifteen years after the ritual was supposed to have taken place. The transplant delayed the War, but with five years left on the clock before the ritual would trigger again, the rush began.
That was nearly five years ago.
This is the siren call of the west. This is the clash of heroes on soil none of them tread before. This is the Fourth Heavens Feel, and who ever wins, one thing is certain - this will not end the struggle over this miracle.
Alright, Master Sheet Time.
Name:
Gender:
Age:
Origin:
Affinity:
Magical Tradition:
Now the next stats go from A to E. You start at D for each one (Except for Crest Generation, which goes down to F and starts at C, and Master Potential which starts at E), and get 5 points to distribute. Each rank up costs one point. You can take away from starting stats for extra points. It costs one point to increase each attribute.
Circuit Quantity:
Circuit Quality:
Master Potential:
Crest (Generation):
Circuit Quality and Quantity dictate your potential as a magus - along with Crest . The higher your Crest, the more prestige your character has in the magical world, and the more family specific spells you have access to. For a price (one point) you can also choose a Sorcery Trait for your master. For another point, you can choose a nonstandard element (One that isn't one of the following: Fire, Earth, Wind, Water, Spirit, Metal) or a second of the standard.
Every point of Master Potential gives you a chance of increasing a Servant attribute.
So for example, you could have the following stat spread -
Circuit Quantity: C
Circuit Quantity: C
Crest: C
Master Potential: C
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Thank you kindly good tree. :3 The sheets I might actually make another thread for like in Cross Effects. Should I start a sub-forum for this also like Cross Effects?
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Thank you kindly good sir. :3 The sheets I might actually make another thread for like in Cross Effects. Should I start a sub-forum for this also like Cross Effects?
I am a tree.
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Fixed it for ya. :3
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This was more of a joke, but thank you.
Also, I think that we're derailing the thread.
Question: Is there any IRC to discuss matters like BL's #notes on IRCHighway?
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This was more of a joke, but thank you.
Also, I think that we're derailing the thread.
Question: Is there any IRC to discuss matters like BL's #notes on IRCHighway?
Or you could just make one? That's what I did, since #notes is basically General Discussion nowadays.
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Well, I know that it's mostly General Discussion, just wondering if this forum had a place where the people generally hang out.
What is the name of your channel?
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Are we taking name suggestions for this now? 8D
Fate/Animism
Fate/Primal Grounds
Fate/Heaven Rush
Fate/War Dance
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This was more of a joke, but thank you.
No problem. :3 I thought it might be a joke, but I was willing enough to go along with it anyway.
Also, we don't have an IRC chat yet, but we can certainly make one. :) Though I may make a separate thread for it so we don't derail this thread much further. ^^"
And yes, name suggestions are appreciated~ I kinda like Fate/War Dance myself, though I'm more than open to far more suggestions. :3
EDIT: And IRC thread is now made: http://darksidemoon.net/SMF_forum/index.php/topic,336.new.html#new (http://darksidemoon.net/SMF_forum/index.php/topic,336.new.html#new)
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>Not Fate/Eagleland
We all know this is the best title for it. Admit it.
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Leo's not here, Mags. You can drop it w/ the MURICA "enthusiasm" now...
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I know but it works so well!
Anyway, we've got two master sheets in - Milbunk and Nachos. Props to those two, amazing sheets.
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YOLF requested over IRC that I remove him from the list due to IRL stuff. It is done.
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Alice has a sheet submitted. That's three Masters.
Better get your sheets in folks.
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So Mike, you gonna go your typical Sakura route or are ya gonna try something different this time around?
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Well, the backstory makes a Sakura route seem somewhat difficult to implement, and also rather unnecessary. Plus, she's in Fuyuki, not the US....
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I was just curious cause that's usually your main motivation for doing any sort of RP or fic.
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Not really. Whilst saving Sakura is an element of pretty much anything I write, it's not usually the actual motive for it. I generally have some other plot thread or concept that is the main reason for the story.
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If Sakura had to be involved somehow all the time, he wouldn't be playing WOD with us. :V But yeah, Mike does focus on not-Sakura occasionally.
And as for Sakura's backstory, not really much I can answer there. That's more Magos's department.
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Well, I am not incapable of writing (or reading) stories that don't focus on Sakura, I just don't like stories where she is implicitly or explicitly left to die at Zouken's hands or similar. Sakura does tend to play a role in my stories, but she's not always the main character.
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OK, some basic rules updates -
>Non-Hassan assassins allowed.
>Berserker and his/her Master will likely be played by the same person, and I'm considering allowing the same person to play a master/servant pair that isn't this. Or I'll play Berserker. Either way.
>First come first served for Master slots; once those are all gone they are all gone. We've got three people who've submitted Master sheets. Better move fast if you want one
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OK, some basic rules updates -
>Non-Hassan assassins allowed.
Well, with this in mind I believe I'll be switching out my previous Servant application with a new one.
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Talking to some people, some people are going to lose interest and back out if the classes are randomized (including Elf). Can we remove that part? There's no point in utilizing it if we're going to lose a bunch of players as a result.
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Well, the problem is that it seems utterly pointless to put effort into writing a sheet if we have a 6/7 chance of being told that we were allocated a different class and need to write another one, and being required to write a servant that can fit 3 or 4 classes minimum severely limits which heroes can be chosen (and, mostly, limits us to more OP heroes, since they tend to have more abilities and, thus, more classes). If Magos really wants to do it that way, he should tell us our class before we write the sheet.
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Look, I thought it was a good idea for a more realistic grailwar.
But apparently people don't want to do that and whine when everything is still the same. Because it is the same.
Sometimes I just don't know anymore.
Fine, make your perfect Master/Servant combo, I'll figure out classes when I can, alright?
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What about doing the randomizing first and then letting people create the sheet with the class they are designated?
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Yeah, that.
It's not the Master/Servant randomizing that they're complaining about. They seem fine with that part (and honestly, I think it's better that way). It's the people playing the Servants getting a random class of the Servant that they get to play. Basically what I got from it is that some don't want to make a bunch of Servant sheets only for some to go unused, others don't have time to make all those sheets, some only have a specific class in mind, etc.
But yeah, it's not the randomization of the Servant and Master pairs they want nixed, it's the randomization of what classes people can play. I probably didn't explain that very well. ^^"
If a Servant sheet is too OP or hax or whatever, you can just ban the sheet and make them make another one.
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Fine, fuck, I'll throw it up here.
What damn class do you guys want to play? Please, just tell me. I was trying to make this as interesting, suspenseful, and as close to a real grail war as possible, but apparently you guys don't want that at all so fuck it. I'll try and keep the servant assignment random, but fine, just pick your class then now.
If this takes the suspense and throws it out the window, and you guys don't like that, then don't blame me.
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Well think of it this way, I don't want to spend a whole lot of time creating a character sheet for a character I'm not going to play.
Plus this is an RP, shouldn't we get some choice about who we're playing?
If you wanted to keep it random, have members PM you with what slot they want and simply say when that spot is taken, but don't say who takes them.
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The problem then is that I KNOW that someone's going to bitch because their special snowflake servant sheet has it's class already taken.
As is then we've got Lancer and Assassin taken.
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I mean, if classes are going to be randomized, I wouldn't want to make a sheet until I know what class I got.
Because I might have to go from scratch and pick a different hero/heroine.
Like, find out who want to be Servants and then privately assign them a class and then they turn in the sheets.
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Just a small note, forgive me if you aren't running the grail war by standard rules but as I recall, only the three knights, Saber, Archer and Lancer have to be summoned. After at least those three servant classes have been confirmed then the remaining four servants can be of any of the seven classes, they may even repeat and have multiple Archer's or sabers or such.
with this in mind from canon, does this solve the issue at hand?
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Honestly that kinda ruins the whole point of the 7 classes in the first place, at least I think so.
I was thinking that we have people express that they want to RP a Servant and then after we get 7 then you randomize which class they get and they have to create the sheet for it, after that you can even keep it hidden who got which class so that it can be revealed as we RPed. (So basically what Elf said.)
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Except that isn't in canon. Unless like the Einzbern's you're directly hacking the grail, which was why the third war was so crazy, the Edifelt's dual sorcery trait allowing two sabers, and then the Einzberns. That's the thing - this grail isn't modified like the Apocraphya one - this was pretty much a dirty transplant surgery, not a reworking of it.
So no, you're wrong. And Extra doesn't really count in regards to classes because it's fucking Extra, it's a different system all together. The only classes that we've seen are the primary seven, plus Avenger, and Avenger was only summoned through the Einzberns freaking taking the grail and hacking the fuck out of it.
For that matter, did you even fucking read into shit?
Saber Lancer and Archer don't NEED to be summoned. They're meant to be summoned, by the three primary families, because they are the hax classes. They and Rider all have Magic Resistance, making Caster irrelevant. Assassin will get killed rather easily by any other class in a straight fight, and Presence Concealment doesn't last or work forever. Berserker is a motherfucking trap card, designed to kill people through the sheer power requirements the class needs. Rider? Rider also can't fight straight up, they need their mount to stand a chance. If they get caught without a mount, or since Spear Beats Horseman, by Lancer, they die too.
You can only have one of any class, unless you game the system. This has only happened twice, in the third grail war. And both times, it was someone gaming the system.
TL:DR you don't know your shit so shut the fuck up
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Look, I thought it was a good idea for a more realistic grailwar.
But apparently people don't want to do that and whine when everything is still the same. Because it is the same.
Sometimes I just don't know anymore.
Fine, make your perfect Master/Servant combo, I'll figure out classes when I can, alright?
The problem is that you're expecting us to come up with sheets we probably won't be able to use, which means that there is little point in us doing it. I wouldn't mind a system whereby people make sheets and then you randomly choose between those sheets (excluding the same player twice, obviously, and preferably with a system that means players without a master get priority), but it seems pointless to make a sheet to get entry into the RP which will then most likely be discarded.
Except that isn't in canon. Unless like the Einzbern's you're directly hacking the grail, which was why the third war was so crazy, the Edifelt's dual sorcery trait allowing two sabers, and then the Einzberns. That's the thing - this grail isn't modified like the Apocraphya one - this was pretty much a dirty transplant surgery, not a reworking of it.
So no, you're wrong. And Extra doesn't really count in regards to classes because it's fucking Extra, it's a different system all together. The only classes that we've seen are the primary seven, plus Avenger, and Avenger was only summoned through the Einzberns freaking taking the grail and hacking the fuck out of it.
For that matter, did you even fucking read into shit?
Saber Lancer and Archer don't NEED to be summoned. They're meant to be summoned, by the three primary families, because they are the hax classes. They and Rider all have Magic Resistance, making Caster irrelevant. Assassin will get killed rather easily by any other class in a straight fight, and Presence Concealment doesn't last or work forever. Berserker is a motherfucking trap card, designed to kill people through the sheer power requirements the class needs. Rider? Rider also can't fight straight up, they need their mount to stand a chance. If they get caught without a mount, or since Spear Beats Horseman, by Lancer, they die too.
You can only have one of any class, unless you game the system. This has only happened twice, in the third grail war. And both times, it was someone gaming the system.
TL:DR you don't know your shit so shut the fuck up
I think he's right that those classes are the only ones that "need" to be summoned. However, I see no evidence that it is possible to summon more than one of the same class. We have three wars, and in those three it doesn't happen even once (the Edelfelts don't count, their two Sabers counted as one servant for the purpose of the War). Your argument itself is rather poor, though, since you have provided zero evidence, and if you count the two Sabers as two distinct servants then saying "well, they cheated so it doesn't count" seems like just making excuses to handwave away evidence against your viewpoint.
And, I do recall it being said that those classes are necessary (which implies the others are not, strictly). However, aside from someone fucking around with the system, it seems like the standard seven classes are the only ones that exist, and repeats do not seem to be possible (at least aside from some bizarre circumstances) since the likelihood of three wars happening without repeats (as I said, the Sabers don't count, since there were 6 other servants beside them) if repeats are possible is very low.
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Basically, repeats are impossible and it only happened because of the Edefelts. So really, he's wrong. End of story.
None of the classes need to be summoned, as the Einzberns proved by replacing one of them with Avenger. So when you consider that, it's more that the three knight classes are meant to be summoned by the three families, not that they need to be summoned by one of them. Lantz is forgetting the war is supposed to be rigged from the fucking start.
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For that matter, we have Four Masters already.
Elf, Milbunk, Alice, and Nachos. Three slots remaining for master sheets folks.
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None of the classes need to be summoned, as the Einzberns proved by replacing one of them with Avenger.
Erm, what? Your conclusion doesn't follow from the evidence. All we can say for sure from the events of the Third War is that the Berserker class does not need to be summoned. Lantz's statement fits that just as well as yours does.
So when you consider that, it's more that the three knight classes are meant to be summoned by the three families, not that they need to be summoned by one of them. Lantz is forgetting the war is supposed to be rigged from the fucking start.
It is pretty clear that the knight classes were meant to be summoned by the original families and were rigged to be overpowered, yes. That only makes it more likely that they are guarenteed to be present no matter what, though, particularly since we know the knight classes were present in the Third War.
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None of the classes need to be summoned, as the Einzberns proved by replacing one of them with Avenger.
Erm, what? Your conclusion doesn't follow from the evidence. All we can say for sure from the events of the Third War is that the Berserker class does not need to be summoned. Lantz's statement fits that just as well as yours does.
So when you consider that, it's more that the three knight classes are meant to be summoned by the three families, not that they need to be summoned by one of them. Lantz is forgetting the war is supposed to be rigged from the fucking start.
It is pretty clear that the knight classes were meant to be summoned by the original families and were rigged to be overpowered, yes. That only makes it more likely that they are guarenteed to be present no matter what, though, particularly since we know the knight classes were present in the Third War.
Look, I'm rather tired so I'll explain this the best I can - Lantz is wrong because we can't have repeats of classes. It only happened because of a fluke in the third war.
For that matter, replacing Berserker could have happened to any class, it's just less likely to happen with the knight classes. Consider the primary seven like the default settings. The three families will always try and grab the knights, but in theory, the Einzberns could have taken Saber and replaced it with Avenger. They don't need to be there, but practically speaking those are the classes everyone wants to be there so they usually are.
And mike please for the love of god make a master sheet or something already, I don't want to have to make one for you. Again.
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Look, I'm rather tired so I'll explain this the best I can - Lantz is wrong because we can't have repeats of classes. It only happened because of a fluke in the third war.
I agree that classes cannot be repeated. The Third War isn't an exception, though, even there there was only one Saber summoned, it just split into two different forms.
For that matter, replacing Berserker could have happened to any class, it's just less likely to happen with the knight classes. Consider the primary seven like the default settings. The three families will always try and grab the knights, but in theory, the Einzberns could have taken Saber and replaced it with Avenger. They don't need to be there, but practically speaking those are the classes everyone wants to be there so they usually are.
Do you have even the slightest bit of evidence for this statement? Because I'm not seeing any....
And mike please for the love of god make a master sheet or something already, I don't want to have to make one for you. Again.
I will, but I have a bunch of other things to do, too.
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Think about it - the Einzberns could replace one of the classes, right? Then logically, they should be able to replace any of the classes.
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I don't think the Einsberns picked a specific class to replace, though, they just said "we're summoning this guy" and fiddled the system to allow them to do so, which resulted in one of the other classes being dropped because the Grail only has enough power to summon 7 servants. If they were going to pick a class to replace, surely they wouldn't have picked the one that has a track record of inevitably destroying their masters before the end of the war....
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Or maybe they added the 8th class container with it, and Saber as usual got summoned early. Berserker got left out in the cold, because nobody wanted that class.
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Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant. They didn't replace one of the class containers, they just summoned their servant (I'm not sure if they made a special container or if they just summoned him "raw" and the Grail just made something up, possibly some sort of default container) and let the Grail sort out the rest.
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Right
As their are 8 containers, but only seven slots in the third war, one of the containers doesn't get used - Berserker. So any of the class containers could have gone unused. It was just Berserker in that situation.
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That doesn't necessarily follow. It could be that the three knight containers are given priority and will always be chosen.
The impression I get is that the Grail does prepare in advance who gets what class, to try to avoid clashes etc. Shirou, for example, gets Saber as the final servant summoned, despite it being the class everyone wants. But, he was actually guarenteed to summon Saber from the moment he got the command spells, if not before, due to Avalon. It seems unlikely to me that that is just co-incidence.
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the magic of plot
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This could probably be debated for some time but perhaps for the meantime we should focus on getting this off the ground?
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Yeah.
Elf called dibs on Archer by the way.
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Arch, it might be a good idea to link to the master sheet on the front page, for convenience.
Also, are there limitations on the power of a servant? Or can we just make whatever we like?
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General rule of thumb - if it can beat Herc, it's likely to be veto'd.
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But aside from that there's no real limit?
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Pretty much, but I'll veto anything I think goes too far.
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Well, I doubt this'll mean much to anyone save Alice, if only b/c she'll have remember to edit the OP.
I am formally withdrawing from this RP.
To everyone else sticking this out: good luck and try to have fun.
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Why is everyone bailing? :(
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Well, I doubt this'll mean much to anyone save Alice, if only b/c she'll have remember to edit the OP.
I am formally withdrawing from this RP.
To everyone else sticking this out: good luck and try to have fun.
Why the withdraw? IRL things? And I'm sure more than just me will be sad to see you go, and for more reasons than editing an OP.
And @Ayakashi, it's just been two people thus far. One was for IRL reasons anyway, which is understandable.
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Well, I doubt this'll mean much to anyone save Alice, if only b/c she'll have remember to edit the OP.
I am formally withdrawing from this RP.
To everyone else sticking this out: good luck and try to have fun.
Why the withdraw? IRL things? And I'm sure more than just me will be sad to see you go, and for more reasons than editing an OP.
And @Ayakashi, it's just been two people thus far. One was for IRL reasons anyway, which is understandable.
Meh. Nothing so interesting or excusable.
Had an enlightening chat session w/ Mags the other day, which killed and dissected one PC idea in lieu of another, more sensible one. However, certain topics that popped up in the course of said conversation have forced me to review whether or not I am currently up to snuff w/ the GM's quality control standards.
So, rather than continue bugging Mags like a stuttering noob, or running myself ragged writing yet more ideas or proposals that will be pared down to some small few, I shall simply opt to pussy out (LIKE A BOSS) and not worry about it this time around. Maybe I can use the character for another RP where I am not as constrained by the "balancing" of a Grail War context.
*shrug*
It ultimately changes nothing, at this point.
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Considering that we could use as many players as possible, it does change some things. Plus I'm sure we could get you up to snuff. :)
...If it makes you feel better, my Master sheet wasn't exactly a shining work of art either. ^^"
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Soldat, you know that we all used to be horrible noobs, right?
There's no shame in having some problems, we'll all go through it, no matter how 'good' we've ended up as. Someone that is truly 'good' understands that there's always room for progress~
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....I literally asked a question about including a possible Mystic Code, and got told off w/ a brief intro to "US Smuggling 101". :V
I mean, holy shit, in all the precious, precious handful of BL RPs I've managed to get in since 2011, I have NEVER met a GM who gave a damn about something so...so taken for granted. It's not a bad thing, but I suppose the perceived difference is due to asking someone who's basing the RP on his place of residence, and has much more experience in both RPing and GMing (if all the mentions of World of Darkness campaigns are any indication).
I'll admit, I was having one of my mood swings during that irc chat; I turn into a mess of neurotic paranoia and bad moves, so maybe I'm just making oceans of rain drops. But if something like that pops up again for something else?
Psshh, noooooooo, no, no thank you.
....Although since his idea to randomize Servant assignments wasn't so well received, maybe Mags could instead substitute a random "start point"? In effect, it'd provide GM fiat to limit how prepared or well-equipped certain Masters will be when they arrive at the city. So for example, if you're unlucky and get rolled "airport security: problems", you can't bring certain types/sizes of objects, and have to either write in alternate means of entering the country or else make do.
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Yeah, honestly, I think being a magus pretty much negates "US smuggling 101". If they can cover up Cthulu appearing in the middle of a city and destroying several JSAF planes, I think they can manage to get a weapon into the country. I mean, drugs are illegal, and drug smugglers don't have the benefit of being magi, yet they still get in.
For example, Japan has far stricter gun laws than the US. There's no way in hell Kiritsugu could have legal permission to bring in all his weaponry. But, it is never even mentioned as an issue.
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What are you talking about that's not a weapon, that's clearly a violin.
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Yeah, honestly, I think being a magus pretty much negates "US smuggling 101". If they can cover up Cthulu appearing in the middle of a city and destroying several JSAF planes, I think they can manage to get a weapon into the country. I mean, drugs are illegal, and drug smugglers don't have the benefit of being magi, yet they still get in.
For example, Japan has far stricter gun laws than the US. There's no way in hell Kiritsugu could have legal permission to bring in all his weaponry. But, it is never even mentioned as an issue.
I know, right? And that's what you'd expect, but I have no idea how Mags planned to run this particular campaign. I don't know how he GMs, period.
But Mags was telling me, "no, you can't bring a short sword made of bone; no, you can't pass it off as an antique; no, air shipping is out of the question, you've gotta try marine smuggling". So that got me thinking, are Masters starting off outside the country, or in it already (as is usual w/ Grail War RPs)?
B/c if the latter, then the whole thing about airport security shouldn't have even come up. But as I also mentioned, mood swings = neurosis, and then things got out of hand and I essentially went, "Fuck it, I'm out".
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OK, yeah, a sword made of bone would be piss-easy to smuggle in even without the whole "magus" thing, because swords aren't usually made of bone, and there is no particular reason why a mundane person would want a bone sword as a weapon. Plus, it won't set off metal detectors and if you do get pulled-over for having it you can just use mind-control magic to convince the guards to let it through.
And, yeah, that's assuming your character doesn't live in the US and get the weapon from there. If they do, then I don't see the problem at all.
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Really, it depends on how you're smuggling it in. I was thinking more on the body, which was my bad. It's difficult, but you should be able to get it through cargo if you're clever.
And mind controlling people doesn't always work when there's cameras around that can see your face. Ending up on the no fly list can be a hell of a problem.
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Basically, if Magos lightened up on that, would you come back, Soldat?
Also, the Servant randomization thing has been lifted after I pointed out numerous people complaining. Now classes are first come, first serve.
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Really, it depends on how you're smuggling it in. I was thinking more on the body, which was my bad. It's difficult, but you should be able to get it through cargo if you're clever.
Well, yeah, flying with a weapon on your person is probably not a great idea in the modern age. In cargo I am not sure they'd even care, it would just look like an antique you purchased on holiday. I believe it is even possible to bring in a samurai sword (although possibly not a sharp one), so a sword made of bone should be fine. And if you did get caught and it was actually clearly illegal, I'm sure you could get out of trouble on camera by just saying it was a genuine mistake and then use mind-control magic to fake its destruction. If you couldn't just convince them you really did have the paperwork and had just lost it....
Sure, some security guard might get fired for being too trusting, but I doubt you would get penalised in a way that couldn't be overcome. And that's assuming the Association doesn't just have someone specifically to allow them to bypass such laws....
And mind controlling people doesn't always work when there's cameras around that can see your face. Ending up on the no fly list can be a hell of a problem.
That is true to some extent, but I doubt that airport security is set up to handle magi. I would be extremely surprised if it couldn't be bypassed, especially for something that could actually be legitimate.
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Yeah, if you're not stupid and trying to bring in ALL THE MAGI TOOLS AND WEAPONS you shouldn't have too much of an issue. Smuggling things in by boat would be easier (can't cover all the coastline) but it'd also be slower. Really, using magic in public is not a smart idea if you want to avoid attention.
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Using magic in public can be dangerous, yes, but an interrogation room isn't "in public". Certainly the Association has no difficulty managing to deal with far bigger issues than that.
Like I said, Kiritsugu managed to get all of his tools into Japan, and I'm pretty sure Japan has far more stringent gun-control laws than the US. It might not be utterly trivial, but I would imagine a magus could just fake the paperwork and use subtle manipulation to convince the guards to accept it.
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Using magic in public can be dangerous, yes, but an interrogation room isn't "in public". Certainly the Association has no difficulty managing to deal with far bigger issues than that.
Like I said, Kiritsugu managed to get all of his tools into Japan, and I'm pretty sure Japan has far more stringent gun-control laws than the US. It might not be utterly trivial, but I would imagine a magus could just fake the paperwork and use subtle manipulation to convince the guards to accept it.
Really, he probably got it in by boat - it isn't exactly hard to conceal something inside a cargo container, and before 9/11 security measures were far laxer world wide.
Now, trying to smuggle something by plane is a damn nightmare, and you have to remember, security cameras. Using magic when you're on tape is also not a smart idea, though it might be able to be suppressed, you're still likely going to end up thrown on a no-fly list or classified as a dangerous individual through that coverup. It's just not worth the risk to hypnotize some TSA officer who wants to ask you why you have a bone sword with you in your bag to let you go.
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Hmm I don't think my character uh Mr. K is gonna have any problems with smuggling he's got plenty of connections.
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Hmm I don't think my character uh Mr. K is gonna have any problems with smuggling he's got plenty of connections.
Yeah, there's some pretty easy ways to get his stuff into the america's if he has connections.
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Really, he probably got it in by boat - it isn't exactly hard to conceal something inside a cargo container, and before 9/11 security measures were far laxer world wide.
Honestly, I think you are massively underestimating Magi. If they can cover up Cthulu in the middle of Fuyuki City, they can get weapons into a country without much effort.
Now, trying to smuggle something by plane is a damn nightmare, and you have to remember, security cameras. Using magic when you're on tape is also not a smart idea, though it might be able to be suppressed, you're still likely going to end up thrown on a no-fly list or classified as a dangerous individual through that coverup. It's just not worth the risk to hypnotize some TSA officer who wants to ask you why you have a bone sword with you in your bag to let you go.
Well, firstly is a bone sword even illegal? I see no reason why it would be, it looks like an antique or ornament. Secondly, I don't think using magic on camera is a problem unless it is obviously visible, and I don't think mind-control magecraft is. Thirdly, do the TSA even record their sessions on camera? Fourthly, if they do, what prevents the person in question just "persuading" them to erase the tape...?
It's pretty clear from how Nasu plays things that Magi are essentially entirely immune to mundane laws. Not once is a magus shown to worry in any way about the police, smuggling regulations or such things. They only care about the Association, and about dealing with witnesses.
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Basically, if Magos lightened up on that, would you come back, Soldat?
Also, the Servant randomization thing has been lifted after I pointed out numerous people complaining. Now classes are first come, first serve.
...Maybe if I can still get Rider? I'd have to show Mags the changes I was thinking of for the Master still, though.
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Basically, if Magos lightened up on that, would you come back, Soldat?
Also, the Servant randomization thing has been lifted after I pointed out numerous people complaining. Now classes are first come, first serve.
...Maybe if I can still get Rider? I'd have to show Mags the changes I was thinking of for the Master still, though.
Rider still isn't taken, go for it.
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Is there a status update on how things are going ( OwO)
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Same as last time I posted.
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If I keep prodding at Mike, hopefully there'll be an update soon.
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Well, I have an idea for a master, I've just not had the chance to flesh him out yet.
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What do you think I'd be prodding you about? :P
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Status update perhaps?
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Still need to get my character done. I have some idea but I've not worked it out properly yet.
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I don't mean to be rude but you should really speed things along.
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Speed, Speed, speed.
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Why don't you give us an estimation of how much longer you're gonna take?
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It depends on how busy I am and how much I get distracted by other things, and whether Alice is around to help me with it. It should hopefully not take too long, though.
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Alright, it's just that I think we are really just waiting on you and that's a little frustrating when you can take soo long to do this kinda thing.
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Yeah, I understand that. I've not been feeling particularly great recently, though, so I didn't have the energy to work on it, and I've also been dealing with other stuff.
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Well, I have a backstory for my character, but I have no idea what abilities to use with him. I could do with discussing it with someone at some point.
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You can either discuss it with Magos over IRC or something if he has time, or I can try to figure something out.
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Yeah, something like that works.
Although, even if I do get a master done, I don't think we have anything like enough servants yet....
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Can we get an update of how much more we need and how many more we need of it?
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More of both: Mike hasn't submitted either, Elf hasn't done a Servant IIRC.
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Oh shit, I haven't done a servant either.
Quick, which classes are open?
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Didn't Elf claim Archer, just not send in the sheet yet? That's what I remember anyway.
Otherwise, not sure what other classes are open.
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More of both: Mike hasn't submitted either, Elf hasn't done a Servant IIRC.
Well, who has? Or, more importantly, how many slots are still open?
Certainly not everyone who signed up has made a character yet.
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Looking back through, looks like it's Lancer and Assassin. Elf also has dibs on Archer.
Not for 100% sure on the first two, but that's how it's set up thus far as far as I know.
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I have made a Servant which can fit in multiple classes.
Archer is taken
Lancer is taken
Assassin is taken
This leaves: Caster, Saber, Berserker and Rider open -- Soldat initially was going to get Rider, but he pulled off.
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I have made a Servant which can fit in multiple classes.
Archer is taken
Lancer is taken
Assassin is taken
This leaves: Caster, Saber, Berserker and Rider open -- Soldat initially was going to get Rider, but he pulled off.
Still here, actually.
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Oh, my bad; I stand corrected.
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Right, I'll update the OP with that info so people don't have to scrounge the thread for it. :3
EDIT: And done. Also updated with the number of Master slots remaining. Once Mike gets his sheet done and I get confirmation on Sodat and whether he's still gonna be playing as his Master or not, I'll take that number down to one or two depending on the circumstances.
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Status update perhaps?
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Well, I still need help with my sheet. I don't know when Arch is on IRC, so I'm not sure when I can discuss it with him.
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You should really at least try to put some more effort into it, you've really had about 2 months now to work on this and we've still got little going for ya. (I'd be willing to help if you need it even.)
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Well, yeah, I've just had a lot of other stuff to deal with, plus I have a job now. So, I don't get a huge amount of time to spend on it, and the fact that I need help from people who live in different timezones to me and who aren't always on slows it down even further.
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More than what's going on w/ Mike, Mags never set up any sort of deadline, so there's no real urgency that the RP is gonna start soon beyond some people wanting to do stuff already.
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Yeah, most of the rush comes from snagging the character slots, not an actual deadline to get things done by.
I'll try keeping on Mike to get that sheet done though. :P
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Well, I talked to Mil today and he's given me some ideas for how to develop the character. I doubt it'll be done before Monday, though, because I'm away this weekend and I have an RP post to write first....
Although, even if I do finish, I think we're still short of people.
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How're you doing Mike? And if we are short by a few people I think in that case it would just be best to have Arch NPC em.
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I'm going to try to make sure I get it done this weekend.
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So did you get it done?
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No, but I did make a significant amount of progress. Right now I need to write up what I've worked out properly and decide on an origin and magical affinity (I know what he's meant to do, just not how to write it as an affinity), then I'll probably send it to Arch to check it's OK whilst I work out the details of my spells.
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Is there still an open slot? I have seen there are three or so.
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Yeah, we have 3 spare master slots and 3 spare servant ones. Whilst I'm not the GM, so I can't say for sure, I see no reason why you wouldn't be allowed to take either or both.
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Can we modify canon ones? I randomly got neat Caster version of already existing Servant in an anonquest.
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I see no reason why not, although, again, you'll have to ask Arch, since he's the GM.
Oh, BTW, Arch, how will servant choice be handled? In particular, the Berserker and Assassin classes are ones which are usually intentionally chosen by the master. Will we get to decide if we want to attempt to get those classes (presumably anyone who does will be given priority for them), or will they be allocated randomly?
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Someone took Assassin already (I noted taken Servant slots in the OP). As for 'Zerker, I suspect it's first come, first serve like the rest.
And yeah, as for existing Servants, as long as Magos is cool with the mods, you can put a twist on 'em just fine. :)
And as for taking both a Servant and Master slot, I think it's pretty much what we're intended to do at this point, because otherwise we won't have enough people. So yeah, feel free to do both. :)
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I meant in terms of summoning, not in terms of character creation. We're not summoning our own servants, right?
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Oooh. In terms of who we summon, that's randomized (so long as it's not someone we control ourselves), but in terms of in game, I think our characters would still do the summoning ritual like normal. Magos would have to clarify that for sure though.
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I want a Caster, I worked with a Caster in an anonquest. Surely Berserker is going to be stronger, but I'm aiming for flavor.
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Oooh. In terms of who we summon, that's randomized (so long as it's not someone we control ourselves), but in terms of in game, I think our characters would still do the summoning ritual like normal. Magos would have to clarify that for sure though.
Yeah, but the Berserker and Assassin classes are special in that you actually have to choose to summon them. Which means that, if a master wants one of those two classes, they probably can do so.
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Gonna send my Master Sheet over to Magos now... had to type it up here to get the formatting right.
Yes, this means I'm participating, for the long run.
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Yeah, but the Berserker and Assassin classes are special in that you actually have to choose to summon them. Which means that, if a master wants one of those two classes, they probably can do so.
You can choose to summon them on purpose, but that doesn't mean you can't get them by chance if you try to summon (circumstances like catalyst and whatnot nonwithstanding) and every other Class has been filled already. Right?
Though yeah, if they haven't yet been called, you can summon Berserker or Assassin knowingly by altering the ritual in accordance. Berserker is also a bit special in that if you have a catalyst for a specific hero, and that hero went mad in life, you can choose to summon them in that Class as opposed to any other they qualify for (again, if the spots haven't been filled).
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Yeah, my point was mostly that any player who wishes to summon either of those two classes should get priority for them (as opposed to the rest, which are randomly-assigned).
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Makes sense.
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The most important thing would be to check wherever Magos is still with us.
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Arch is definitely still here, he's just waiting for sheets (both a master sheet from me and also servant sheets).
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I meant just a written confirmation that he's still with us and hasn't spaced out.
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I haven't, but it'd be helpful if some people got their servant sheets in...
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I haven't, but it'd be helpful if some people got their servant sheets in...
Good to know.
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I haven't, but it'd be helpful if some people got their servant sheets in...
after the sunday, a conference...
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Joining as well, I want to branch out a little :D
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I'll add you to the OP then! :)
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If we can make a Ruler, I will make a Ruler.
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If we can make a Ruler, I will make a Ruler.
Nope. Mags said earlier that Ruler is unique to Apocrypha's altered Grail system, so don't hold your breath.
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So Mike purposefully lied to me or got something wrong? D:
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You'd really have to talk to Arch about it, but currently there is a Saber, a Caster, and a Berserker slot open perhaps one of those slots would fit instead?
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I remember I claimed Caster, but I would prefer Saber if such slot is free. Fictional hero or only those from mythologies/history?
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Mine is from history but if you wanted a fictional one you'd have to run it by Arch.
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So Mike purposefully lied to me or got something wrong? D:
Well, you asked in the Cross Effects thread, so I assumed you were talking about Cross Effects....
I certainly don't remember saying that Ruler-class servants were allowed in this RP.
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Oh, then I see, it was misunderstanding on both parts. That said, if we could gather 14 members to play we could easily stage a grand Apocrypha style HGW. GM would run a Ruler. We should try that once this forum gets more members.
Milbunk, I wanted to run Saber from history, but appropiately Nasufied. Our female king led military expeditions at age of 13, I should just spice details a bit (Originally I wanted her a Ruler, since she is a saint)
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Any progress so far?
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No, because I had to revise and edit my MA thesis for submission, so that drained juices out of me, but I should be able to procure at least basic stats for her.
Do we have mechanics regarding stats or do we submit the sheet to the (wo)man in charge and get feedback if the stats appropiate?
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For Masters we do, for servants I think it's entirely up to the GM. The general rule is "nothing stronger than Heracles", though, I think.
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Dead?
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Let's hope not.
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I just need to prod Mike again. ^^" I got busy with... well, a lotta stuff, so I'll get back to poking him. As for everyone else, can't account for them too much I'm afraid.
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I did actually make some progress last weekend, but I wanted to talk to Arch to work some more stuff out, and when Arch was around he was doing the Shadowrun thing instead.
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I did actually make some progress last weekend, but I wanted to talk to Arch to work some more stuff out, and when Arch was around he was doing the Shadowrun thing instead.
Considering your usual speed I thought you'd forgot about this.
It's dead Jim.
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No, I'd not forgotten about it, I just never got the time to actually write the character. If you're not intending to run it any more then there isn't a lot of point, but I don't see any reason why it is dead.
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I don't see any reason why it is dead
Simple: the utter lack of activity, annnnnnd the lack of any hype to assure it's still on.
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Well, the RP has stalled because we're waiting on people to make character sheets (mostly me...), I don't think that means it's necessarily dead.
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Nah, after this long it's deaaaaaad
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There are definitely still people showing interest, so I don't think that's really true.
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Eh, I think if we just call attention to it again, it might be OK. The trick though is making sure that everyone that signed up earlier comes back to it. ^^"
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Besides, aside from the IC location, it's "another" Grail War.
And by that I mean it's practically the same cookie-cutter clone as most other Grail War RPs where NOTHING DIFFERENT IS ATTEMPTED.
Which more vocal opinions have stated to be rather dry fare.
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A shame.
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I'm still floating around.
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Well, OK, who is still interested in this RP?
I am, and I will get a character done reasonably soon, but there isn't much point in me working on it if the RP is going to die anyway.
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I recall I claimed Saber, so I can just use Mordred out of laziness.
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I'm still interested as well. :) Just mostly been waiting for everything to get set up.
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Well, I have a master slot which I still intend to use. I may take a servant, but probably not because I don't have any good ideas for one and I've taken long enough to write a master....
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I'm still interested in this... just need to figure out the details of my character better.
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Eh, it's dead for me. I'll use the character (and his family history) elsewhere.
Took too long.
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nuuu, Nachos. ;_;
...hmm, how to revive this properly, new thread?
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Sounds like a plan.
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Arg even if you revive it you still need to find a new GM and actually get Mike to finish his sheets
And if he really needs constant prodding and poking to open a word doc and make some phony history for a character, he's probably not too into the idea anyway
And don't make a second thread for the same subject, we have Lantz for that.
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Fair enough. If I actually get Mike to finish his dumb sheets, and things actually start rolling again, would you potentially be interested? :)
Also, get on Skype, we miss you. :<
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I have stomach Virus, I cannot skype. This logic is unquestionable.
Also, no. My interest for seeing my sneak thief in this RP has withered and fallen off the ideas branch. As said, will use him later.
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And if he really needs constant prodding and poking to open a word doc and make some phony history for a character, he's probably not too into the idea anyway
You're underestimating how difficult I find it to actually make a character. Also, how good I am at procrastinating even with things I actually do want to do.
Basically, I do want to participate in the RP, but I don't particularly enjoy actually writing out the character sheet, so it takes me a long time to get there....
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I have stomach Virus, I cannot skype. This logic is unquestionable.
Also, no. My interest for seeing my sneak thief in this RP has withered and fallen off the ideas branch. As said, will use him later.
That sucks. O_O Hope you get better soon, then. :)
And aww. :( It was worth a shot anyway.
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@Alice: If you *really* want to breathe new life into this "project", then simply reboot it. What's so hard about that?
Although as Names previously said, get a bloody GM if it's not gonna be helmed by Mags anymore. And please, if it *MUST* be a cookie-cutter copy of the usual Grail War format, then at least make sure the new lead has a plotline of sorts to set this within.
The reason I keep needling on that ONE POINT is b/c, well, most of us came here from BL. And we each at least know *of* many of BL's fanfiction writers; hell, a few of this forum's members have dabbled in that themselves. And yet Grail War RPs don't seem to exhibit nearly any of that creative worldbuilding ability, y'know?
So please, even if the mechanics don't change (which is kinda dumb considering canon's own oversights, but whatever), there needs to be some sort of hook to drag attention back to this thread/project.
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Actually, most fanfiction does not 'worldbuild' very much, if at all.
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Leo is entirely correct.
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In the sense of putting forward an actually/vaguely interesting premise as backdrop.
:V
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In the sense of putting forward an actually/vaguely interesting premise as backdrop.
:V
Well, surely you can do such a thing.
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I'm still interested btw just let me know when you've made a decision on what you want to do, I should be fine with mostly anything.
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Ok if we truly don't want this to die, I propose a complete reboot, let's do a Grail War as we intended but with a new setting someone willing to GM it, and set deadline for the character sheet creation.
What do you guys think?
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Yeah, that probably makes sense. A deadline will also actually mean I write the sheet in time rather than procrastinating about it for months....
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Reusing Mordred sheet for Servant if it's Saber.
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Dibs on Rider, just as before, if feasible.
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I still have a certain Assassin sheet ready for this.
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Well that's three with me included that brings it up to four. Any others?
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I'm in again, with a master at least.
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Alright in that case we just two more and we can get things moving again. Anyone else interested?
Also to show my interest I'll be taking over as GM so that we can keep things moving, is that ok with everyone?
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Alright in that case we just two more and we can get things moving again. Anyone else interested?
Also to show my interest I'll be taking over as GM so that we can keep things moving, is that ok with everyone?
That depends: are you going to take into account any of the feedback from various irc meets? :V
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Locking thread due to a new incarnation arising.