Author Topic: Questions thread  (Read 15809 times)

Cherry Lover

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Re: Questions thread
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2013, 07:48:48 PM »
I was thinking of him getting Diarmuid, honestly.

Then again, why do you think he'd be better with Berserkelot?

Because he's a hell of a lot stronger. Lancer couldn't have won the war even with a very powerful master, there's no way he could defeat Gil and I doubt he could take down Saber. Lancelot actually could beat Gil. Further, since he was a danger to Gil, Kiritsugu let Kariya live.

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@Cherry: I guess I should be a lot more clear about the usefulness of his alternate Magus training. I meant that he wouldn't need the worms to begin with (at least in what I'm thinking).

Yeah, but Zouken wouldn't accept him without the worms, because without the worms Kariya isn't under his control.

Xamusel

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Re: Questions thread
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2013, 07:53:15 PM »
Even if this wasn't exactly going to play out how it did in canon?

No, I'm not trying to make a massive argument, I'm just asking about the different chances of Kariya's survival (especially with a more agreeable Zouken, one that isn't as much of a total monster as he is in canon, but still a monster).

Tyrnek

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Re: Questions thread
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2013, 08:04:28 PM »
How would he get Diarmuid? Did he steal the catalyst from El-Melloi (which made him furious, considering he had been stolen from twice, and summoned a Berserker instead? :P)? If it's just a "standard" summoning with Kariya having the same motivation as canon (save Sakura), then I can't imagine that the Grail would send him Diarmuid.

Granted, I'm not too familiar with Diarmuid's backstory, but I think his thing is more with love entanglements and treachery, whereas Kariya's thing is more of the standard "rescue the maiden from the evil wizard". Maybe he could get Don Quixote XD.

EDIT: Scratch the above. I could see how that would work, actually (Aoi and Tokiomi and Kariya).

As for survivability, you're asking us to consider this hypothetical scenario of a Servant swap in the 4th HGW we're familiar with, though at the same time you admit that the conditions prior to your version of the 4th are very different. Unless you are willing to tell us what exactly has changed, I'm afraid that the best we can do is give you predictions based on established canon.

Worm'd Kariya + Lancer = dead. Magus Kariya + Lancer = Kiri's gonna be gunning for him, so also dead. Magus Kariya + Berserksalot = Possibly dead, though has a better shot than most - though as Cherry pointed out, Zouken wouldn't allow that to happen without worming Kariya first.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 08:12:36 PM by Tyrnek »

Cherry Lover

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Re: Questions thread
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2013, 08:38:49 PM »
Even if this wasn't exactly going to play out how it did in canon?

No, I'm not trying to make a massive argument, I'm just asking about the different chances of Kariya's survival (especially with a more agreeable Zouken, one that isn't as much of a total monster as he is in canon, but still a monster).

Well, yes, if you're not talking about canon it changes somewhat. If Kariya was trained and not wormed he would have more chance of surviving. It also depends on who the other masters are and how inclined they are to kill him....

Xamusel

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Re: Questions thread
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2013, 10:33:38 PM »
True, I can understand that, Cherry.

Also, as for how Kariya gets the catalyst for Diarmuid, Zouken excavates it before Kayneth gets the chance to obtain Iskandar (which will be destroyed like in canon).

Cherry Lover

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Re: Questions thread
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2013, 11:21:21 PM »
Kayneth's catalyst for Iskandar wasn't destroyed, it was stolen. Hence why Waver ended up summoning him....

Xamusel

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Re: Questions thread
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2013, 11:24:17 PM »
When I said "destroyed", I was talking about the chance to summon Iskandar or anyone else.

I didn't mean the catalyst, by the way.

Cherry Lover

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Re: Questions thread
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2013, 11:32:21 PM »
Oh, OK.

That was just somewhat confusing wording....

Xamusel

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Re: Questions thread
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2013, 11:37:47 PM »
My mistake with the wording.

I won't do that again (if I can help it to begin with).

Now, for another question, what would be the best-case scenario for a non-wormed Kariya (who's gotten free of worms because of a one-time deal with Zouken he worded very carefully) to survive the war as a Magus and a Master? I'm trying to cover as many bases as I can here.

Cherry Lover

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Re: Questions thread
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2013, 11:47:36 PM »
Well, not getting killed if he loses is difficult, honestly, and winning is also very hard, given that Gil is around. It depends somewhat on whether Tokiomi hates him or not, though. If Tokiomi wants him to live and Kiritsugu doesn't target him he might survive under the protection of the church.

Xamusel

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Re: Questions thread
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2013, 11:59:53 PM »
Then again, I was thinking of something along the lines of "what if Kariya somehow stayed in the war all 16 or so days", plus keeping Diarmuid around after the war (instead of Kirei keeping Gil).

I'm still not sure how that would happen, unless I can work out some different Servants for some of the Masters, but keeping the classes intact (and keeping the "real world" requirement to them).

Tyrnek

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Re: Questions thread
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2013, 01:24:29 AM »
Either that, or somehow finagle an alliance between Kariya and one of the other Masters.

Xamusel

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Re: Questions thread
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2013, 01:28:13 AM »
Hmm... that would be a good idea, if I ran with it.

Of course, I have a while to go before I fully decide what the different Servants will be (apart from Arturia, Diarmuid, and Iskandar), and who gets the different Servants (apart from Kiritsugu, Kariya, and Waver respectively).

Cherry Lover

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Re: Questions thread
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2013, 01:38:22 AM »
Either that, or somehow finagle an alliance between Kariya and one of the other Masters.

Yeah, this is probably your best bet, honestly. Even with some magical training, Kariya is massively out-classed, and the masters in the fourth war don't seem overly inclined to spare one another....

Xamusel

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Re: Questions thread
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2013, 01:42:03 AM »
Hmm... that does sound like something I'll keep in mind.

Tokiomi's already taken by Kirei (and Kariya wouldn't go along with that like Kirei would), Waver probably won't be available for this, and... I think I'll go with an alliance between Kiritsugu and Kariya (should that be the most likely bet that will work).