Author Topic: How would X win in a fight against Y  (Read 7985 times)

Cherry Lover

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Re: How would X win in a fight against Y
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2014, 04:39:18 AM »
Well alright. Archer versus Gilgamesh

Well, Archer could presumably win that in a similar way to how Shirou did, by taking advantage of the utter contempt which Gil feels towards him. It would be harder for Archer because Gil isn't quite stupid enough to treat a fellow servant as casually as he did Shirou, but then Archer is stronger and more experienced than Shirou, so that should cancel that out.

lantzblades

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Re: How would X win in a fight against Y
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2014, 05:15:26 AM »
Assuming solo I don't see him winning honestly

Cherry Lover

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Re: How would X win in a fight against Y
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2014, 01:20:00 PM »
Why? If Shirou can manage to defeat Gil, then surely Archer is capable of doing so....

lantzblades

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Re: How would X win in a fight against Y
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2014, 03:49:51 PM »
Archer's Cerebral fighting style gives him an advantage against other opponents but Gilgamesh is different. You can't out think a bull who's charging, unless Archer adopts a wholly different strategy he's done for.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 03:50:31 PM by lantzblades »

Cherry Lover

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Re: How would X win in a fight against Y
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2014, 03:54:16 PM »
I'd say that out-thinking is precisely how to beat Gil. You're not going to win by brute force, after all. And, besides, you're forgetting that Archer is more-or-less perfect for taking on Gil. He has a counter to GoB, and is such a "mongrel" that Gil is never likely to pull out Ea until it's too late.

Arch-Magos Winter

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Re: How would X win in a fight against Y
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2014, 07:03:35 PM »
Archer is basically Gil's worst nightmare to face - UBW can beat all his fucking shit into the ground and Archer has mastered it, Archer knows how to use ERRY phantasm through that resonance effect so he's also got that advantage.

The question is if he can get through Gil's armor. I'd argue he *could* but it'd be difficult, and would probably end with either Gil and Archer dead or Gil dead and Archer pretty much a millimeter from death.

Cherry Lover

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Re: How would X win in a fight against Y
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2014, 07:37:21 PM »
I can't believe that Archer wouldn't have something he could do to break through Gil's armour. Plus, even if he didn't, I don't see any armour on Gil's head....

I guess the question is whether or not Archer can manage it before his prana depletes. Certainly I don't see Gil defeating him in a straight fight, because UBW is almost a perfect counter to GoB, and Gil is too arrogant to do anything other than spam generic swords at him. The only way Gil wins is by Archer running out of prana to maintain UBW.

Brahmastra

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Re: How would X win in a fight against Y
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2014, 08:16:25 PM »
I can't believe that Archer wouldn't have something he could do to break through Gil's armour. Plus, even if he didn't, I don't see any armour on Gil's head....

Karna's armor is literally scattered bits of gold and thigh-high socks and it works on his entire body, including his head. This argument is stupid, and regardless of if it's right, do you honestly believe Gil will let EMIYA get near his face? He'd be full of swords before you can say "Surely this body was made out of swords".

As for the matchup, unless you want to perceive Gil as he seems to usually be in Mike and lantz's case (AKA A complete and total fucking idiot), he will absolutely steamroll Archer. It's just a matter of how serious you want to believe Gil is and how much plot armor you wanna give EMIYA.

Basically, for the health of this thread's future, unless you give a ridiculous advantage to his opponent (IE give EMIYA his plot armor in UBW route, Shirou his Protagonist Modifier + ONORE status effect, Let Karna get a surprise attack) and have him be entirely unserious, Gil wins against literally any human or Servant.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 08:25:22 PM by Christemo »

lantzblades

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Re: How would X win in a fight against Y
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2014, 09:23:31 PM »
Well for my money I agree for the most part with Arch. Excepting one thing, sniping, if it's a sniper battle Gil's ass is toast because Archer actually has real skill in that regard.

Arch-Magos Winter

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Re: How would X win in a fight against Y
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2014, 09:31:35 PM »
Depends on if he has a defense against that and if Archer can muscle his way through it.

I'm tending towards Archer getting through being a no, though he might get lucky

Cherry Lover

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Re: How would X win in a fight against Y
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2014, 09:41:14 PM »
This argument is stupid, and regardless of if it's right, do you honestly believe Gil will let EMIYA get near his face? He'd be full of swords before you can say "Surely this body was made out of swords".

Erm, what? Gil is really bad at actually just killing enemies. I would expect it to end up with Archer being able to summon UBW before Gil actually got to GoB spam....

Quote
As for the matchup, unless you want to perceive Gil as he seems to usually be in Mike and lantz's case (AKA A complete and total fucking idiot), he will absolutely steamroll Archer. It's just a matter of how serious you want to believe Gil is and how much plot armor you wanna give EMIYA.

Gil is not an idiot, but he is extremely arrogant and careless, and he definitely sees Archer as beneath him. He could steamroller Archer, but I doubt he would because he sees Archer as too worthy of contempt for that.


YOLF

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Re: How would X win in a fight against Y
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2014, 10:34:22 PM »
If we want to be realistic, we have to take into account how even though Gil has the power to defeat any other Servant or Heroic Spirit and should be able if he makes do, his personality and attitude towards opponents are real and very exploitable weaknesses.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 10:36:29 PM by YOLF »
[13:38:37] Helligator: Depends on the god, but gods by definition in Nasuverse are strong because they have divine authority.
[13:38:48] Kat: Even the toilet god?
[13:38:56] Helligator: No one worships toilets.
[13:39:00] Helligator: Don't be a shitlord.

[04:32:08] Helligator: I can't make dragons in power armor like this

[19:50:12] francobull III: [...] why are you being all assive aggressive?

[23:32:37] Helligator: use the narrative as a means to convey an interesting story and cool conflicts with the openness you're allowed
[23:32:43] Helligator: not to CHEAT stories and conflicts

Brahmastra

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Re: How would X win in a fight against Y
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2014, 01:27:53 AM »

Gil is not an idiot, but he is extremely arrogant and careless, and he definitely sees Archer as beneath him. He could steamroller Archer, but I doubt he would because he sees Archer as too worthy of contempt for that.

Like I said, how much ONORE and plot do you want EMIYA to have? Coz that is exactly what this entails. Gil possesses the ability to steamroll five of any one Heroic Spirit with relative ease. Without taking into his arrogance (which I think is fair, given that everyone in this entire fucking argument is forgetting that 1. Gil can survive point-blank Excaliburs with his armor on, and nothing EMIYA has is even close to that in power, 2. Gil's armor is so tough that we don't even know if it can break to anything short of an Excalibur (the thing about his armor "almost giving out" in Fate is a mistranslation, Saber isn't even close) and 3. EMIYA takes a fucking year and a half to chant UBW and would get dumpstered before he could even namedrop it), Gil has the counter to every Servant, and he doesn't even need it to stomp them.

Well for my money I agree for the most part with Arch. Excepting one thing, sniping, if it's a sniper battle Gil's ass is toast because Archer actually has real skill in that regard.

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1. Gil can survive point-blank Excaliburs with his armor on, and nothing EMIYA has is even close to that in power

Also Gil has Sha Nagba Imuru, so he'd see any sniping coming from a mile away. If it's Hrunting, he can just destroy it with his own weapons.

Again, for the health of this thread, Gil wins, every time.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 01:28:59 AM by Christemo »

YOLF

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Re: How would X win in a fight against Y
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2014, 03:42:58 AM »
He most certainly did not survive Saber cutting him in half with Excalibur during the Fate finale.

Sha Nagba Imuru is not something the canonical character has in his servant sheet in any way, so you can't really use it as a point in this argument, Chris.

And as was stated already, by a fair fight Gilgamesh should not be able to realistically lose against anyone. And no, he is not weighted down by his hubris and personal flaws in a fight as much as some people would say, but it is a fact that he has those weaknesses, and they are a significant thing to consider in the outcome of a fight against him.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 03:45:00 AM by YOLF »
[13:38:37] Helligator: Depends on the god, but gods by definition in Nasuverse are strong because they have divine authority.
[13:38:48] Kat: Even the toilet god?
[13:38:56] Helligator: No one worships toilets.
[13:39:00] Helligator: Don't be a shitlord.

[04:32:08] Helligator: I can't make dragons in power armor like this

[19:50:12] francobull III: [...] why are you being all assive aggressive?

[23:32:37] Helligator: use the narrative as a means to convey an interesting story and cool conflicts with the openness you're allowed
[23:32:43] Helligator: not to CHEAT stories and conflicts

Cherry Lover

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Re: How would X win in a fight against Y
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2014, 04:16:47 AM »
Yeah, I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that Archer could beat serious Gil, because essentially no-one can beat serious Gil. But, Gil is not serious very often, and Archer is very low on the list of "people who he's likely to respect enough to fight seriously", so Gil's ego is a big factor here.