Author Topic: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] PC version Mirror Moon TL insertion project  (Read 13167 times)

Cherry Lover

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In the original, she thinks "I wish he wasn't here" because she knows he'll tell Shirou, and Shirou will end up breaking even more as a result. It's much more Shirou-centric.
See, I don't think that's the reason though. "Oh no, Senpai!" was the reason she was actively struggling at first, but the trigger for the shadow was rather the darker "nobody ever lets me be happy, I hate the whole world" thought train that came after she gave up.

No, what triggered her to give up and let him rape her was the threat of telling Shirou. But, the way he was acting made it clear that he would tell Shirou anyway, and at that point she just snapped and killed him.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 05:38:06 PM by Cherry Lover »

Alice

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Really, is Sakura having the motivation Koto stated so bad? Honestly, for all the crap she's been through it's a rather understandable and human emotion to have. Certainly after you've been through enough shit it's rather easy to feel that way. And then regret any bad things that result from it later. Whether it be just being real grouchy to people as a result, or in this case...

Plus it's not like Shirou wasn't a motive period. It's possible to have multiple motivations after all. I'm just saying that it's a perfectly human reaction to have under her circumstances. No one's perfect, after all.

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Cherry Lover

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Really, is Sakura having the motivation Koto stated so bad? Honestly, for all the crap she's been through it's a rather understandable and human emotion to have. Certainly after you've been through enough shit it's rather easy to feel that way. And then regret any bad things that result from it later. Whether it be just being real grouchy to people as a result, or in this case...

Plus it's not like Shirou wasn't a motive period. It's possible to have multiple motivations after all. I'm just saying that it's a perfectly human reaction to have under her circumstances. No one's perfect, after all.

Well, it's a more negative emotion than the original one, even if somewhat justified. I don't think killing Shinji in that situation is remotely unreasonable, but I do think that it's somewhat OOC for Sakura to do so based on what we see of her previously.

Jacktheinfinite101

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@Mike see that's not how I see it.  My version HAS all of the the original uncensored text.  Yes you need an additional patch for some of it but I reccomend using all the patches anyway and not just the main English patches (well right now I have to fix the Vita OP patch).  And it's not that I'm being arbitrary here.  You could say that for some other RN text changes that I left in like the removal of some of Shirou's sexist lines (since nobody will miss them), here it isn't a case of me being arbitrary, it's a case of me recognizing that the Shinji/Sakura relationship is so different compared to other censorship that it should be classified as different scenes, and therefore, both versions should be accessible to readers.  My patch is supposed to be the most complete experience possible with all of the scenes accessible, both H and H alt.  Now it is true that the H patch is not the best place to put it, but that is a limitation of not having any room for more switches than the ones we already added.  In the follow up project I plan to do where we merge the routes, I'll have Quibi make a separate menu for all the switches we add so we can fit more, but for now, we're confined to the two we have.  So to clarify since you made some hypocritical accusations to me on Skype: I am not biased (at least not as far as this patch is concerned) against Sakura or anyone else, nor am I doing an ykind of intentional sabotage.  I have the interests of all the fans in mind when I make this, you included.  I can make adjustments and changes so please try to be more reasonable and don't go fucking crazy on me like you did the other day because I feel less encouraged to accommodate you when you act like that.

So here's what I can do, right now I'm focused on fixing the broken content in my patch, but after that I will consider these options: 1. adding a notice into the readme that the H patch also contains an alternate take on the Shinji Sakura relationship and 2, switching the flags for Shinji/Sakura scnes over to the uncensor option used for H depixilzation rather than the H scenes themselves.  That way you can keep H scenes turned off through the whole game, but leave uncensoring on and have the original 2004 Shinji Sakura relationship.  Will that help?

Cherry Lover

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Well, yeah, I did over-react the other day. I was just somewhat irritated about the nature of the non-H option, and the fact that you'd placed the censored Shinji/Sakura scene under that. It didn't help that I got confused about what exactly you had and had not included in that option. Sorry about that, the accusations I made were rather unfair.

However, I do genuinely think that I'd like to see the full RN version more than a version that cuts out some of the stupidity from the RN edit but not all of it, although I guess that's just a personal thing. Also, it wasn't just the Shinji/Sakura scene that you left in, right? I presume you also left in the other censorship (the removal of the mentions of rape etc.).

Anyway, as for what you said, the first one definitely makes sense. The second one I'm unsure what you mean exactly. Do you mean that, if someone plays through the version of the game with the H-scenes and turns decensorship off, they'll get the RN version of the Shinji/Sakura scene? Or would it only apply if they had the H-scenes turned off as well? If it's the second, then that definitely would work (although it should probably be explained in the readme). If you mean the first, then it could possibly work, but it would really need to be well-explained (particularly since IIRC the H-scenes assume things that are censored from the original RN).

Jacktheinfinite101

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Well it's kind of a difficult place to be in because of how RN has been treated.  The ideal way for it to work would have been for FSN to have been TL'ed, RN TL'ed, and then someone to have come in and made some kind of fusion patch, but the order was mixed around.  MM first added the voices to FSN, then Waku Waku added some but not all of the new effects and scenes from RN, so RN turned into something you patched into FSN because of this.  The project started out with Waku Waku putting the MM text into RN, as a more efficient version of the RN patch he did for the 2004 FSN, as it's easier to put FSN into RN than it is to put RN into FSN, so in order to avoid alienating the audiences I wanted to keep the experience of "FSN with RN features" but also provide something else that was just full on RN, but since we had access to the text changes I decided I would apply some, such as the removal of some uses of "x says this in a y tone" since RN is voiced, and the removal of some more infamous moments like some of Shirou's rather sexist comments that have given him a rather negative reputation in the community, but was very conservative towards the FSN version of the text.

To answer your question, other references to Sakura being raped were made into if statments as well, in fact I might just change that because I think I went overboard.  I blame UBW for this.  In Fate I only added if statments to things like references to the H scenes and whatnot, and left lines like "Kill them or rape them" from Illya to Berserker alone.  but then in UBW, there was so little sexual content I kinda became sort of super observant and used them on things I may have overlooked in Fate and HF, such as Shirou feeling Rin's breasts when they were hiding in the corner, or the line about Shinji imagining himself raping Saber.  It also doesn't help that the scene where Caster tortures Saber was considered an H scene so I used if statements on those too.  So by the time I got to HF, UBW had put me into the mindset of, "if it's sexual, then use an if statement."  I think I may have gone overboard as I probably don't need to accomodate the different versions of Sakura's other abuses........no wait......shit I do because of the Lust Worms vs Crest Worms, which is important to the H/H alts.......damn.  See, it's tough to find where to draw the line.  Though I think some stuff like Kotomine saying she has suffered sexual abuse and Sakura herself saying she was raped while they were in the rain could be left in, so I'll go ahead and change that when I fix the other stuff.

Clarifying the suggestion I made:  Basically the uncensoring switch and the H switch are independant of one another so if we use the unensoring switch to keep the original version of the Shinji/Sakura relationship, you can keep H scenes off, leave uncensoring on, which normally would do nothing without H scenes on but in this case would be the new flag check for the Shinji Sakura content.

Cherry Lover

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Well it's kind of a difficult place to be in because of how RN has been treated.  The ideal way for it to work would have been for FSN to have been TL'ed, RN TL'ed, and then someone to have come in and made some kind of fusion patch, but the order was mixed around.  MM first added the voices to FSN, then Waku Waku added some but not all of the new effects and scenes from RN, so RN turned into something you patched into FSN because of this.  The project started out with Waku Waku putting the MM text into RN, as a more efficient version of the RN patch he did for the 2004 FSN, as it's easier to put FSN into RN than it is to put RN into FSN, so in order to avoid alienating the audiences I wanted to keep the experience of "FSN with RN features" but also provide something else that was just full on RN, but since we had access to the text changes I decided I would apply some, such as the removal of some uses of "x says this in a y tone" since RN is voiced, and the removal of some more infamous moments like some of Shirou's rather sexist comments that have given him a rather negative reputation in the community, but was very conservative towards the FSN version of the text.

Hmm, I'm not sure if the removal of "x says this in y tone" is always sensible since, whilst RN has voices, the voices are not translated, so an English speaker might not always pick up on that.

As for the rest, I guess I can see your point.

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To answer your question, other references to Sakura being raped were made into if statments as well, in fact I might just change that because I think I went overboard.  I blame UBW for this.  In Fate I only added if statments to things like references to the H scenes and whatnot, and left lines like "Kill them or rape them" from Illya to Berserker alone.  but then in UBW, there was so little sexual content I kinda became sort of super observant and used them on things I may have overlooked in Fate and HF, such as Shirou feeling Rin's breasts when they were hiding in the corner, or the line about Shinji imagining himself raping Saber.  It also doesn't help that the scene where Caster tortures Saber was considered an H scene so I used if statements on those too.  So by the time I got to HF, UBW had put me into the mindset of, "if it's sexual, then use an if statement."  I think I may have gone overboard as I probably don't need to accomodate the different versions of Sakura's other abuses........no wait......shit I do because of the Lust Worms vs Crest Worms, which is important to the H/H alts.......damn.  See, it's tough to find where to draw the line.  Though I think some stuff like Kotomine saying she has suffered sexual abuse and Sakura herself saying she was raped while they were in the rain could be left in, so I'll go ahead and change that when I fix the other stuff.

Ah, OK, fair enough.

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Clarifying the suggestion I made:  Basically the uncensoring switch and the H switch are independant of one another so if we use the unensoring switch to keep the original version of the Shinji/Sakura relationship, you can keep H scenes off, leave uncensoring on, which normally would do nothing without H scenes on but in this case would be the new flag check for the Shinji Sakura content.

Sure, but that doesn't answer what I was asking. Obviously it works fine in the case where the H-scenes are turned off, but what happens in the case where the H-scenes are turned on but the uncensoring is not? Would the player then get the RN version of the Shinji/Sakura scene? If so, it would really need to be explained well.

Jacktheinfinite101

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Oh shit, that's a good point.  That might be problematic since it would be weird.  After all the reason she refuses Shinji is because she's been with Shirou so the rape scene really doesn't work without the H scenes.  This is why working with the sexual content can be tricky.  It was much easier to ignore violence censorship, but sexual violence like rape can be tricky if it potentially refernces the H scenes.  For example, one line from Gil about "It should be a woman's joy to be held down and violated" was censored down, at first I ignored it, but then realized it also says "It's not like you're a virgin" and was like "...........fuck that's an H scene reference".  Granted some of the dialogue that wasn't changed still feels like H references they were too lazy to take out.

Cherry Lover

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Well, I think the rape scene does still work without the sex scene, because the important point is more that Shirou loves and has accepted Sakura than that they have had sex. Admittedly it's a while since I've read it, though. But, having the H content and not the other uncensored content (such as rape mentions) definitely would be weird.

Jacktheinfinite101

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Well, I think the rape scene does still work without the sex scene, because the important point is more that Shirou loves and has accepted Sakura than that they have had sex. Admittedly it's a while since I've read it, though. But, having the H content and not the other uncensored content (such as rape mentions) definitely would be weird.


Right, so at the moment we're kinda stuck with relying on the H patch unfortunately.  I'll make a note in the readme though.  Also one of the two major tech problems has been solved so I'll start looking at some of the stuff I used if statements on to see if I can just make some of them independent of the H patch.

Cherry Lover

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Well, I think the rape scene does still work without the sex scene, because the important point is more that Shirou loves and has accepted Sakura than that they have had sex. Admittedly it's a while since I've read it, though. But, having the H content and not the other uncensored content (such as rape mentions) definitely would be weird.


Right, so at the moment we're kinda stuck with relying on the H patch unfortunately.  I'll make a note in the readme though.

What do you mean that you're stuck with relying on the H patch?

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Also one of the two major tech problems has been solved so I'll start looking at some of the stuff I used if statements on to see if I can just make some of them independent of the H patch.

OK.

Jacktheinfinite101

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Release 1.2 is here: http://www.mediafire.com/download/ygpumuc7t4ib1ug/Fate+Stay+Night+Realta+Nua+English.rar

Changes:
-Fixed bug in prologue where "return to top" option is useable but causes crash
-Applied many spelling and grammar fixes found both by BL users and MM forum users
-Fixed crash that happens when you try to access the Wakame Easter Egg in UBW
-Fixed bug where Vita OST patch is required
-Added link to LAV filters in the readme for people experiencing OP crash issues
-Added modified version of the MM flowchart into the rar file.
-Added in game flowchart with selectable scenes and the ability to alter flags, requires player to complete the game (get all 5 route endings and view LE) to unlock so it can't be used to cheat.
-Uploaded to different site since some people were experiencing troubles DLing from MEGA.

Things to do when Jack manages to pull himself away from the Destiny Beta:
-Make video showing the in game flowchart off
-Add more descriptions of how the patch works into the OP for people who can't be bothered to actually watch the fucking video.
-Upload lower res versions of the OP patch for people who can't handle the HD videos.
-Re-work how the patch handles cycling between the 2004 FSN version of the Shinji Sakura relationship and the RN version.
-Find time to post on other TM community sites.

Sinib

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You did it! You posted on other community sites!

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Cherry Lover

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I think he means other than BL and DSM :P

(Admittedly, I'm not aware of there being any other TM community sites, so...).
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 04:17:46 AM by Cherry Lover »

Jacktheinfinite101

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13uster gave me a couple places that I could post to.