Author Topic: Debate Everything  (Read 8325 times)

Knick

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Re: Debate Everything
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2014, 11:43:00 PM »
Mike, we will run out of supplies. Because humanity can keep growing. There will reach a point where we lose to much to regain.

And when that happens the "world peace" that was obtained? It will crumble.

And war is plenty beneficial. Japan went to war in WW2 because it ran out of natural resources, so invaded other lands. It was incredibly beneficial for them. Most other benefited greatly from wars, getting more land, income, resources, population and so on.

War is not a fun thing and causes suffering, but saying its worthless and benefits no one is foolish and uneducated.

Cherry Lover

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Re: Debate Everything
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2014, 11:48:17 PM »
Mike, we will run out of supplies. Because humanity can keep growing. There will reach a point where we lose to much to regain.

And when that happens the "world peace" that was obtained? It will crumble.

Not really, because we can get resources from elsewhere. Plus, the human race is not growing anything like as quickly now than it was before.

Of course, if there are more people than resources we will end up fighting, but I think we've advanced to the point where our initial approach is to find more resources for all of humanity rather than to kill off someone else and take their resources.

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And war is plenty beneficial. Japan went to war in WW2 because it ran out of natural resources, so invaded other lands. It was incredibly beneficial for them. Most other benefited greatly from wars, getting more land, income, resources, population and so on.

War is not a fun thing and causes suffering, but saying its worthless and benefits no one is foolish and uneducated.

Yeah, go to Japan now and ask them if WW2 was worth it....

Sure, localised wars can be worthwhile, but modern all-out war rarely is.

Kat

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Re: Debate Everything
« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2014, 11:58:42 PM »
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Isn't that Extra Rin?

No, normal Rin. Reread.

Post scarcity economy is a utopia of deluded socialists, since it is impossible to provide everyone with everything unless we trample on their rights and keep them at the same low level. There will be always richer and poorer.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 12:01:19 AM by Cool Kat »

Cherry Lover

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Re: Debate Everything
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2014, 12:08:41 AM »
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Isn't that Extra Rin?

No, normal Rin. Reread.

I don't remember normal Rin saying that, but I do remember hearing that Extra Rin did.

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Post scarcity economy is a utopia of deluded socialists, since it is impossible to provide everyone with everything unless we trample on their rights and keep them at the same low level. There will be always richer and poorer.

It's impossible to provide everyone with everything, but it's possible to have a society where everyone is comfortable and only extreme luxuries are not available to everyone. Indeed, we are probably heading rapidly in that direction, with the existence of things like 3D printers that will allow printing just about anything you might want from cheap building-block materials.

Kat

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Re: Debate Everything
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2014, 12:09:57 AM »
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with the existence of things like 3D printers that will allow printing just about anything you might want from cheap building-block materials.

These materials are not free. Also many 3D printer products are inferior to the original.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 12:12:06 AM by Cool Kat »

Knick

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Re: Debate Everything
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2014, 12:16:36 AM »
Mike are you one of the guys who approves of people assembling non trackable guns with 3d printers?

Because you sound like it.

Also Japan ended up as one the the leading technological producers in the world along with having one of the most powerful military forces in the world rather then being bogged down in gorilla wars for their entire existence. Honestly, losing WW2 to the USA worked out incredibly well for them.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 12:17:20 AM by Knick »

Kat

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Re: Debate Everything
« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2014, 12:17:28 AM »
Found FSN Rins quote:

http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%2086/

"But don't get me wrong. If the Holy Grail will truly grant any wish, permanent world peace is the worst wish ever.
It means there's nothing, right? A world without conflict is dead. If things aren't moving, all they do is rot."

lantzblades

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Re: Debate Everything
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2014, 12:22:31 AM »
No Mike, 3D printing is currently infantile in it's production abilities.

and yes Umbra I find that the most basic concept of don't punch your neighbor in the fucking face having to be called impossible (in fact the word impossible itself is ) disgusting. Go on and make your phone a fucking codec, see who you can call when the world blows sky high because the human race couldn't manage civility.

Cherry Lover

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Re: Debate Everything
« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2014, 12:24:40 AM »
These materials are not free.

No, but they're cheap.

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Also many 3D printer products are inferior to the original.

Yes, at the moment. I'm not so sure that will be true in 20 years time.

Mike are you one of the guys who approves of people assembling non trackable guns with 3d printers?

Because you sound like it.

Not really, because guns are overwhelmingly bad. 3D printing actually useful things I am totally OK with.

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Also Japan ended up as one the the leading technological producers in the world along with having one of the most powerful military forces in the world rather then being bogged down in gorilla wars for their entire existence. Honestly, losing WW2 to the USA worked out incredibly well for them.

It did, but the war itself most certainly didn't.

Found FSN Rins quote:

http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%2086/

"But don't get me wrong. If the Holy Grail will truly grant any wish, permanent world peace is the worst wish ever.
It means there's nothing, right? A world without conflict is dead. If things aren't moving, all they do is rot."

Fair enough.

Anyway, I don't entirely disagree with that, it depends how you define conflict. Wars are generally a bad thing, arguments are not. If no-one ever disagreed with anyone else, the world would stagnate. And, further, I also think that it is extremely important for governments to know that they can be overthrown. If everyone knew that no-one could ever fight back no matter what they did, some people would take advantage of that at the expense of everyone else.

No Mike, 3D printing is currently infantile in it's production abilities.

Yes, currently. In 20 or 30 years, it won't be.

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and yes Umbra I find that the most basic concept of don't punch your neighbor in the fucking face having to be called impossible (in fact the word impossible itself is ) disgusting. Go on and make your phone a fucking codec, see who you can call when the world blows sky high because the human race couldn't manage civility.

Saying "don't punch your neighbour in the face" is all well and good, but it doesn't get you too far if he punches you, or if he is just standing in your doorway making sure you can't get out of your house and generally being a jerk.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 12:27:14 AM by Cherry Lover »

Kat

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Re: Debate Everything
« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2014, 12:26:18 AM »
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No, but they're cheap.

Cheap means often that it is of shoddy quality and dangerous to environment. Are we going to wreck planet just to make everyone have everything?

Umbra of Chaos

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Re: Debate Everything
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2014, 12:34:29 AM »
and yes Umbra I find that the most basic concept of don't punch your neighbor in the fucking face having to be called impossible (in fact the word impossible itself is ) disgusting. Go on and make your phone a fucking codec, see who you can call when the world blows sky high because the human race couldn't manage civility.

If it was that easy there would be no wars. People can fight over everything. Money, religion, vengeance, and justice are just a few things people will fight over. It is impossible because people will never agree about everything, and there are always people who will want more then what they have. The ambition to climb to the top, and they are not always nice. All it takes is one person to disagree and world peace falls to pieces.
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Cherry Lover

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Re: Debate Everything
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2014, 12:37:34 AM »
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No, but they're cheap.

Cheap means often that it is of shoddy quality and dangerous to environment. Are we going to wreck planet just to make everyone have everything?

Cheap doesn't always mean that. Technological progress tends to make things both cheaper and higher quality.

Kat

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Re: Debate Everything
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2014, 12:57:36 AM »
More important is if these materials are actually ecological. Cheap materials that increase polution are bad news. Sustainable development is more important than providing everything for free (which is wrong because it turns people into freeloaders).

Future of the planet is more important than socialist delusions.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 12:58:17 AM by Cool Kat »

Kat

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Re: Debate Everything
« Reply #43 on: June 11, 2014, 01:34:32 AM »
From one of guys who actually produce 3D printer:

“The most common myth that’s propagated by the media is 3-D printing will replace entire manufacturing and it’s clearly not. Moussa says in a recent interview. “We will never, ever be able to produce plastic parts as cheaply in 3-D printing as you can in injection molding. In volume and customization and in prototyping, there is just no chance at all to be as efficient or productive as mass manufacturing techniques. ”


lantzblades

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Re: Debate Everything
« Reply #44 on: June 11, 2014, 02:16:18 AM »
Yeah Umbra, whatever dude. Humans should always reach further, the word impossible is an excuse when it comes to philosophy and technology.