Author Topic: Game development 101 (discussion and idea thread)  (Read 4278 times)

Xamusel

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Re: Game development 101 (discussion and idea thread)
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2013, 02:10:12 AM »
Okay, scratch the idea I had about the different OC love interests.

Instead, make it four different ends for Saber, the Tohsaka girls (Sakura included for one route), Ilya, and Ayako.

Cherry Lover

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Re: Game development 101 (discussion and idea thread)
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2013, 02:11:03 AM »
Okay, scratch the idea I had about the different OC love interests.

Instead, make it four different ends for Saber, the Tohsaka girls (Sakura included for one route), Ilya, and Ayako.
Totally disagree, why the hell should Sakura be less important than Saber, Rin and even Ilya and Ayako?

Xamusel

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Re: Game development 101 (discussion and idea thread)
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2013, 02:12:06 AM »
You misread it, Cherry.

I included Sakura in Rin's route, hence why I said "the Tohsaka girls".

Cherry Lover

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Re: Game development 101 (discussion and idea thread)
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2013, 02:15:21 AM »
You misread it, Cherry.

I included Sakura in Rin's route, hence why I said "the Tohsaka girls".
Yes, which means she doesn't get a route of her own or, presumably, get to be paired up with Shirou (at least not in all of their routes).

We need to work out a basic underlying concept of where this will be set and what will be going on first, though. IMO we can't decide any of this until we've done that.

lantzblades

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Re: Game development 101 (discussion and idea thread)
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2013, 02:21:44 AM »
logically trying to do fate and tsukihime in the same game it'd be cluttered as a first outing (not to mention some of us don't know tsukihime.)

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The point I'm making is that we don't even have a basic concept of what the story behind the game will be yet, so it's very hard to make any of the decisions you're asking us to make in a meaningful way.

i called them soft choices and limits for a reason. they aren't supposed to be heavily decided choices. they are a frame work.

and creating a nasuverse game with oc's in command would put players off.

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Yes, which means she doesn't get a route of her own or, presumably, get to be paired up with Shirou (at least not in all of their routes).

seeing as there's four endings for each path i think you are over reacting

Xamusel

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Re: Game development 101 (discussion and idea thread)
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2013, 02:26:41 AM »
As far as what I was really aiming for, I wanted to see a route where both Tohsaka sisters were happy with the man they love without the need for what Nasu says happens in the Heaven's Feel route.

However, I guess I'll have to revise my idea a bit more.  I think the paths should be Saber, Rin, Sakura and Ayako (I remembered that I don't want a loli romance in this at all).

Anyway, lantz, don't worry about the whole Sakura thing.  Cherry and I talked about it already over Skype.

KAIZA

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Re: Game development 101 (discussion and idea thread)
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2013, 02:36:34 AM »
So...too late to suggest the idea for the plot I had in the old forum?

Xamusel

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Re: Game development 101 (discussion and idea thread)
« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2013, 02:39:01 AM »
Okay, what plot, KAIZA?

Now you got me curious.

lantzblades

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Re: Game development 101 (discussion and idea thread)
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2013, 02:40:36 AM »
I do not intend there to be a dating mechanic in the game.

with four paths it really depends on character basis or not. in the case of character basis then we establish the four main characters and then the range the ends should have.

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So...too late to suggest the idea for the plot I had in the old forum?

i wasn't aware you had an idea in the old fourm, shoot Kaiza and we'll see if it sticks

Xamusel

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Re: Game development 101 (discussion and idea thread)
« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2013, 02:42:58 AM »
lantz, I meant how it was handled in the Visual Novel.  There wasn't exactly a dating mechanic, but the romance was still there.

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Re: Game development 101 (discussion and idea thread)
« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2013, 02:51:38 AM »
Had to dig the old forum to find it. I still have to expand on the plot a bit, but this was the old idea for a game:

Spoiler for Hidden:
I'll start with the plot, which I already mentioned would be an AU.

So far, the idea I have for the AU is this: during the Third War, instead of summoning Angra Mainyu as Avenger, the Einzberns instead decide to summon Amatsu-Mikaboshi, the Primordial Darkness and god of evil and the stars in Japanese mythology, into a unique container, Chaos. Hoping to use its power to devastate the opposition, and obtain the Grail, the Einzberns soon realize their mistake. AM (funny, same acronym) is too powerful to be bound, even with the Command Seals. AM only goal and drive is to bring the world and existence back into its primordial state of nothingness. Eventually, somehow, and involving the Grail, AM is defeated and sealed inside of it. However, it was too late, and by then a large disaster had occurred. This affects the world from then on, and forces changes to the Grail War system (read: justifies gameplay).

The villain's Servant, I was thinking, would be a Lancer (class may vary) called Ame-no-Kagaseo, who in reality is AM's human aspect/incarnation (like EXTRA!Caster to Amaterasu). At the end, the player would confront both the villain and his Servant, and after the two are defeated, the villain uses his Servant as a Catalyst to bring back AM, thus starting the game's final battle.

Also, I had the idea of making two different gender protags, a la EXTRA. May be silent, or not. It depends on how much it should affect the plot.

Now, for gameplay.

Well, first off, as I mentioned, there would be two protags a la EXTRA, one for each gender. The game would be divided into 15 chapters, or "Days", that chronicle the events that occur during the war. At first, the protag is by itself, but by the end of, say, Day 1, they already get a Servant. I'm still undecided whether we should give a choice, or to give one specific Servant.

Battles involve two teams. The player is restricted to a maximum of 8 characters in their team. However, the PC has to be in the party, there must be at least one Servant, and all Masters have to have at least one Servant assigned. So...a team can go from 1-1 Master and Servant, 1-7 Master and Servants, 4-4 Masters and Servants, and so on.

Characters would eventually be recruited into the player's party. I had the idea of Rin being the first character to join you, dunno why. When a Master joins, they bring with them their Servant. Oh, speaking of which...

To accommodate gameplay, there have been...changes to the Grail system. First off, there are more than 7 Masters. Also, Masterless Servants can make contracts with Masters, as always, but now, it's standard practice. The idea is to defeat the enemy Masters, take their Servants, and slowly build a strong team who can win the War. Now, all Servants have some kind of Independent Action, in that they can remain for a day even when their Master is killed. Servants can also be transferred between Masters, for the sake of gameplay. The actual skill Independent Action now has a different use in gameplay. I'll explain in a bit.

OK, back to battles. At the start, each Servant unit has to be assigned to a Master. Masters and Servants with good match-ups gain bonuses in their stats while connected. Those with bad match-ups, penalties. When a Servant is killed in battle, the Master can continue to fight. However, if the Master is killed, all Servants assigned to him/her have a few turns before they disappear (die). How long they last is defined by their IA skill (everyone has it). There could be an option for another Master in the team to connect with the Servants, but that's optional for now. If the Servant is masterless by the end of a battle, they have to be re-recruited. Again, this has to be done within the day, or else the Servant disappears and is lost forever. Obviously, dead Masters remain dead (a la Fire Emblem).
If the MC, or plot important characters (like say, Rin), die, it's game over.

Outside of battles, the player can explore Fuyuki, and visit different locations, such as the school, temple, etc. Some of these areas may also be used for battles, btw. Servants, even the ones in the party, don't have their identity revealed most of the time. There are exceptions (Ilya's Berserker), but for those who don't have it, you can look for info around the city. Discovering a Servant's true name is key in unlocking their strongest abilities/Noble Phantasms.

Servants will obviously come with their own abilities (and can learn some with experience/level ups), different classes come with different abilities, but for Master characters, they have to learn them through items, or some other method I still have to think of. Spells and skills have different effects, yada yada, I believe you know the drill. Some characters, though, will have unique abilities, like Rin's jewels or Shirou's projection. I also had an idea of maybe multi-classing Servants, like Lancer having "Lancer" and "Berserker" as options.

If possible, we could also add a relationship mechanic to the game, a la Fire Emblem, or maybe a la Persona. This could increase stats for Master characters, give them new skills, and in the case of Servants, increase their match-up with the characters. Yes, it would involve others, no only the MC.

Normally, through the story, you'll eventually get one of each type of Servant, along with their Masters. Other characters and Servants may be available to be recruited ("Kotomine joined the party!"), some temporarily, others permanently. Boss battles would involve Master and Servant teams, a Master with his Servant and some familiars, a Master with various Servants, etc. As per the rules, you can recruit the enemy Servants after the battle, unless the plot says no. Same with the Masters, sparing them can allow you to recruit them, too. Not all characters need to be fought.

Regular enemies could be some sort of Familiars, summoned creatures, or I-don't-know-the-hell-this-is type of enemies like in EXTRA. There could be events around the city, during certain days, for side-quests and recruiting and stuff.

I also had the idea of implementing some of the characterization from the series into gameplay. Like with Gilgamesh's Ea; it's the strongest attack in the game, bar none, but can only be used with 3-4 enemies in the entire game (Saber, Zero!Rider, etc), no matter what, because Gil only brings out Ea against those he considers worthy.

I still don't know how to implement the command spells, but they should go somewhere.
I'll try to expand a bit on the plot, do give me some time.

Cherry Lover

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Re: Game development 101 (discussion and idea thread)
« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2013, 02:58:28 AM »
i called them soft choices and limits for a reason. they aren't supposed to be heavily decided choices. they are a frame work.
Well, OK. But, even so, I think we should at least define the basic setting before trying to decide things like this, even as a "framework". Otherwise we'll only end up ignoring this stuff later.

Quote
and creating a nasuverse game with oc's in command would put players off.
Definitely.

Quote
Quote
Yes, which means she doesn't get a route of her own or, presumably, get to be paired up with Shirou (at least not in all of their routes).

seeing as there's four endings for each path i think you are over reacting
Not if every other character has an entire path to theirselves. I also think Sakura's involvement shouldn't be confined to only one path....

However, I guess I'll have to revise my idea a bit more.  I think the paths should be Saber, Rin, Sakura and Ayako (I remembered that I don't want a loli romance in this at all).
That makes more sense, although I think Rin's route should involve Sakura heavily.

I do not intend there to be a dating mechanic in the game.
What, as in Shirou would remain unpaired?

Had to dig the old forum to find it. I still have to expand on the plot a bit, but this was the old idea for a game:

Spoiler for Hidden:
I'll start with the plot, which I already mentioned would be an AU.

So far, the idea I have for the AU is this: during the Third War, instead of summoning Angra Mainyu as Avenger, the Einzberns instead decide to summon Amatsu-Mikaboshi, the Primordial Darkness and god of evil and the stars in Japanese mythology, into a unique container, Chaos. Hoping to use its power to devastate the opposition, and obtain the Grail, the Einzberns soon realize their mistake. AM (funny, same acronym) is too powerful to be bound, even with the Command Seals. AM only goal and drive is to bring the world and existence back into its primordial state of nothingness. Eventually, somehow, and involving the Grail, AM is defeated and sealed inside of it. However, it was too late, and by then a large disaster had occurred. This affects the world from then on, and forces changes to the Grail War system (read: justifies gameplay).

The villain's Servant, I was thinking, would be a Lancer (class may vary) called Ame-no-Kagaseo, who in reality is AM's human aspect/incarnation (like EXTRA!Caster to Amaterasu). At the end, the player would confront both the villain and his Servant, and after the two are defeated, the villain uses his Servant as a Catalyst to bring back AM, thus starting the game's final battle.

Also, I had the idea of making two different gender protags, a la EXTRA. May be silent, or not. It depends on how much it should affect the plot.

Now, for gameplay.

Well, first off, as I mentioned, there would be two protags a la EXTRA, one for each gender. The game would be divided into 15 chapters, or "Days", that chronicle the events that occur during the war. At first, the protag is by itself, but by the end of, say, Day 1, they already get a Servant. I'm still undecided whether we should give a choice, or to give one specific Servant.

Battles involve two teams. The player is restricted to a maximum of 8 characters in their team. However, the PC has to be in the party, there must be at least one Servant, and all Masters have to have at least one Servant assigned. So...a team can go from 1-1 Master and Servant, 1-7 Master and Servants, 4-4 Masters and Servants, and so on.

Characters would eventually be recruited into the player's party. I had the idea of Rin being the first character to join you, dunno why. When a Master joins, they bring with them their Servant. Oh, speaking of which...

To accommodate gameplay, there have been...changes to the Grail system. First off, there are more than 7 Masters. Also, Masterless Servants can make contracts with Masters, as always, but now, it's standard practice. The idea is to defeat the enemy Masters, take their Servants, and slowly build a strong team who can win the War. Now, all Servants have some kind of Independent Action, in that they can remain for a day even when their Master is killed. Servants can also be transferred between Masters, for the sake of gameplay. The actual skill Independent Action now has a different use in gameplay. I'll explain in a bit.

OK, back to battles. At the start, each Servant unit has to be assigned to a Master. Masters and Servants with good match-ups gain bonuses in their stats while connected. Those with bad match-ups, penalties. When a Servant is killed in battle, the Master can continue to fight. However, if the Master is killed, all Servants assigned to him/her have a few turns before they disappear (die). How long they last is defined by their IA skill (everyone has it). There could be an option for another Master in the team to connect with the Servants, but that's optional for now. If the Servant is masterless by the end of a battle, they have to be re-recruited. Again, this has to be done within the day, or else the Servant disappears and is lost forever. Obviously, dead Masters remain dead (a la Fire Emblem).
If the MC, or plot important characters (like say, Rin), die, it's game over.

Outside of battles, the player can explore Fuyuki, and visit different locations, such as the school, temple, etc. Some of these areas may also be used for battles, btw. Servants, even the ones in the party, don't have their identity revealed most of the time. There are exceptions (Ilya's Berserker), but for those who don't have it, you can look for info around the city. Discovering a Servant's true name is key in unlocking their strongest abilities/Noble Phantasms.

Servants will obviously come with their own abilities (and can learn some with experience/level ups), different classes come with different abilities, but for Master characters, they have to learn them through items, or some other method I still have to think of. Spells and skills have different effects, yada yada, I believe you know the drill. Some characters, though, will have unique abilities, like Rin's jewels or Shirou's projection. I also had an idea of maybe multi-classing Servants, like Lancer having "Lancer" and "Berserker" as options.

If possible, we could also add a relationship mechanic to the game, a la Fire Emblem, or maybe a la Persona. This could increase stats for Master characters, give them new skills, and in the case of Servants, increase their match-up with the characters. Yes, it would involve others, no only the MC.

Normally, through the story, you'll eventually get one of each type of Servant, along with their Masters. Other characters and Servants may be available to be recruited ("Kotomine joined the party!"), some temporarily, others permanently. Boss battles would involve Master and Servant teams, a Master with his Servant and some familiars, a Master with various Servants, etc. As per the rules, you can recruit the enemy Servants after the battle, unless the plot says no. Same with the Masters, sparing them can allow you to recruit them, too. Not all characters need to be fought.

Regular enemies could be some sort of Familiars, summoned creatures, or I-don't-know-the-hell-this-is type of enemies like in EXTRA. There could be events around the city, during certain days, for side-quests and recruiting and stuff.

I also had the idea of implementing some of the characterization from the series into gameplay. Like with Gilgamesh's Ea; it's the strongest attack in the game, bar none, but can only be used with 3-4 enemies in the entire game (Saber, Zero!Rider, etc), no matter what, because Gil only brings out Ea against those he considers worthy.

I still don't know how to implement the command spells, but they should go somewhere.
I'll try to expand a bit on the plot, do give me some time.
Yeah, I think this is a reasonable set-up, and it can be fitted into the idea of having player choices defining routes.

lantzblades

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Re: Game development 101 (discussion and idea thread)
« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2013, 03:12:48 AM »
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Well, OK. But, even so, I think we should at least define the basic setting before trying to decide things like this, even as a "framework". Otherwise we'll only end up ignoring this stuff later.

the frame work isn't important save as a platform for the general discussion

@ Kaiza lotta good ideas there, but i think that plot as a first attempt might be a little too ambitious.

the other ideas are great though A+

 
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What, as in Shirou would remain unpaired?

as in programing in an affection mechanic is a terrible pain.

Cherry Lover

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Re: Game development 101 (discussion and idea thread)
« Reply #43 on: April 27, 2013, 03:36:10 AM »
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Well, OK. But, even so, I think we should at least define the basic setting before trying to decide things like this, even as a "framework". Otherwise we'll only end up ignoring this stuff later.

the frame work isn't important save as a platform for the general discussion
What?

Quote
@ Kaiza lotta good ideas there, but i think that plot as a first attempt might be a little too ambitious.
Well, what plot are you suggesting...?

Quote
Quote
What, as in Shirou would remain unpaired?

as in programing in an affection mechanic is a terrible pain.
Well, yes, but if the routes are character-based we don't necessarily need to.

lantzblades

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Re: Game development 101 (discussion and idea thread)
« Reply #44 on: April 27, 2013, 03:54:29 AM »
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What?

it's a jumping point

Quote
Well, what plot are you suggesting...?

while Kaiza's is good I think that the plot for our first game should be simpler, Alternate grail war perhaps or otherwise following one (or all) of the routes like HA or such