Author Topic: Adrift in the Kaleidoscope (Brainstorming / Summary / Criticism Thread)  (Read 4161 times)

Cherry Lover

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Re: Adrift in the Kaleidoscope (Brainstorming / Summary / Criticism Thread)
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2014, 12:53:09 AM »
Yeah, that's problematic, as 'Archer' would want the grail as well to just go fucking home... but I think he could be convinced to let Saber have it since A). His soul wouldn't help fill the grail and he really wouldn't need to die B). HIs prana cost would be piddly even without the Greater Grail System and C). Rin might be able to help get him home afterwards even without the Grail.

I would imagine that the Grail would need 6 servants to grant Saber's wish, it is not a simple one. Gil's death might count for that, though, so it could be OK.

But, if Archer knows the Grail is corrupt this is moot anyway, because Rin isn't going to destroy the world over a wish and nor will she or Shirou allow Saber to do so (and nor, I suspect, would Saber desire to).

Quote
'm aware, I'm trying to fix that by working my way through it, but I don't have as much time off as I'd like to do so.

Yeah, fair enough.

Andoriol

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Re: Adrift in the Kaleidoscope (Brainstorming / Summary / Criticism Thread)
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2014, 07:50:46 AM »
Hrm. How long do you think it would be before Zouken made a move on Sakura after the place gets vaporized but most of the Servants are still up and about?

Cherry Lover

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Re: Adrift in the Kaleidoscope (Brainstorming / Summary / Criticism Thread)
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2014, 07:31:15 PM »
Well, it depends a bit on his state.

If he has worms left around and can obtain himself a new body, then I'm not sure exactly how he would act. He would want Sakura back, but any attempt to do so would result in Rin becoming aware of his continued existence and doing everything in her power to save her sister. At the same time, though, there is no point in him just letting her go off and live her life, he gains little benefit from that. So, it would depend on how desperate he is and how much of a danger he felt Rin was to him. It's possible he'd just kill Rin, if he could, although that would probably have to wait until after the war, or that he'd use Sakura as some kind of bargaining chip for his own survival. It depends on what he considers is his best chance of surviving and obtaining the Grail (he'd be willing to abandon Sakura if it increased his chance of gaining immortality to do so).

However, if all of the worms aside from the ones in Sakura are dead and he has no other way to obtain a body, then he would be left with little choice but to take over Sakura's body in desperation. In that case, I would imagine he would try to do it as subtly as possible, and attempt to make it look like she'd fled home so that Rin would not suspect him and hunt him down (or, again, he'd just kill Rin as well).

Ultimately, Zouken's actions are mostly driven by pure self-interest. His sole goal at this point is to keep himself alive by any means possible. Ultimately that means obtaining the Grail to gain immortality, but he needs to be alive for that, so his immediate survival generally takes priority. However, he does seem to be somewhat vengeful towards people who he sees as double-crossing him (such as Kariya) and seems to enjoy suffering somewhat, so I would imagine that, all things being equal, he would prefer a solution that caused Rin to suffer for what she did to him. I don't think that would be a particularly high priority, though, compared to ensuring his own survival and that he has at least the opportunity of obtaining the Grail in the future.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 07:31:47 PM by Cherry Lover »

Andoriol

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Re: Adrift in the Kaleidoscope (Brainstorming / Summary / Criticism Thread)
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2014, 07:57:10 AM »
Okay, hrm, another go then, with further down the line sketched out.

---

Through a completely unknown method, ‘Archer’ / OCdoriol is sent hurtling through the kaleidoscope. A relatively normal person who for no discernable reason, is thrown into the space between realities. He’s trapped somewhere similar to the Throne of Heroes in ‘location’ (as much as the word can mean something in this sense) but distinctly not. Then he feels… pulled. Like his heart and core have been roped and tugged along… and then poured, as if painlessly melted down and dribbling into a container.

And then there’s pressure against his skin that something inside of him rises to match it- and suddenly face meets couch and floor and there’s the snapping of bones and pain.

First Swing
Spoiler for Hidden:
Spoiler for Servant Stats:
Class: Archer
Alignment: Lawful Good
True Name: *****
Sex: Male

Parameters:
Strength: X
Endurance: X
Agility: X
Mana: N/A
Luck: C
Noble Phantasm: N/A

Class Abilities:[/u]
Independent Action: E
Materialization for 30 turns.

Personal Skills:[/u]
Impossible Knowledge: C+
Archer has knowledge from the depths of the Kaleidoscope and alternate realities. He is aware of things which he would otherwise unable to know. Due to his nature, Archer is also resistant to any effect which would expose him to the overwhelming amounts of information.

Noble Phantasms:[/u]
N/A
F/SN –
Summoned by Tohsaka Rin as ‘Archer’, he crashes into the floor hard, breaking an arm. Rin rushes up to see wtf is going on. ‘Archer’ has a small panic attack. Rin has to use Hypnosis to calm him down and get the full story from him, what little there is.

Rin gives him a bit as she mulls over the information, as rambling as it is, that he can give her. She decides to lock him up in a Bounded Field for a bit while she confirms some things as best she can. Particularly, she figures out that Shirou is essentially exactly as described.

Rin uses ‘Archer’ as an info-well, the poor sod starting to relax and snark some at her but genuinely concerned and out of his depth. He has relatively complete knowledge of Fate and UBW, but only general knowledge of Heavens Feel. He warns her about this.

First Concept – Rin ropes Shirou and a properly summoned Saber into an alliance because ‘Archer’, no matter how you look at it, is an absolute shit Servant at best. Shirou doesn’t have a wish, and while Saber doesn’t believe that the grail is tainted, she’s willing to work with the more experienced Rin, ‘Archer’ has to be convinced to give up his wish that he’d use to go home.

Rin tests ‘Archer’ repeatedly to be sure that A). He’s not screwing with her and B). He really doesn’t have anything else useful other than information. But at the same time, she’s not harsh, she’s too good natured and he’s too damn vulnerable and pathetic.

Rin convinces Saber to help her roast the Matau mansion to the ground to save Sakura (she is unaware that Zouken that can control her since ‘Archer’ isn’t able to recall this info).

Rin convinces Lancer to help her and Saber take on Caster (letting him operate under the assumption that Rin is Saber’s master?)

This works and Saber brings down Caster (avoiding Rule Breaker as Rin had been warned and thus, warned Saber).

Berserker attacks them and Rin / Saber are forced to retreat.

Blood Fort Andromeda becomes a problem. Rin tries to have Saber kill Shinji but Shirou will have none of it. They resolve the problem as per Fate.

Not much later, Lancer breaks into the Tohsaka residence using his runes to try and track down the seventh Servant, and finds ‘Archer’. “… well shit.”

Lancer used Stab! It’s Super Effective!

Result: ‘Archer’ dies horribly


---


Baldur's Gate (D&D)
Archer is summoned by a wizard main character of the series into the middle of the battle. He is wounded, but helps, barely, against pathetic enemies.

The series is a classic Dungeons and Dragons fantasy universe, with gods and dragons and monsters, with adventurers and kings. The protagonist of this story is (unknowingly) a demigod of the dead god of murder, who’s foster father was just killed. She is now on a quest to figure out wtf happened with her companions. Archer has been summoned into nearly the very beginning of the series, with the protagonist and most of the party being Level 1 – 3.

He doesn’t speak the language, but with some effort, they get him magic to do so. He explains his situation to them, and while some members of the party are unsympathetic, most are. The protagonist vows to help Archer as best she can. They help him get equipped with leather, a spear, a shield, and start teaching him magic.

Archer doesn’t remember his own name, which horrifies him. For the most part he’s able to deal with it, but he has a breakdown and needs to calm down occasionally. It’s all just too overwhelming and terrifying.

Much of the time is spent either training (glossed over in the story as it’s not interesting to read about, just snippets to show his difficulties) as well as having to deal with a medieval level of technology and adventuring on top of that.

He’s wounded several times while sticking close to them. A wolf bite to the leg, arrows to the shoulders and body, and countless bruises. But he survives several quests and learns the basics of magic.

After ~two months his summoning runs out at an inconvenient point(?)

Result: A bit more character development, some time to breathe, trials, tribulations, and showing that hey, he doesn’t have to die to go on.


---


Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic[/b]
His soul replaces the artificial personality of Revan. Surprised, he rolls with it as best he can, having adjusted at least a bit in the previous world.

He barely gets any distance in the game before taking a blaster bolt to the face through sheer, dumb lack of luck.

Result: Death. Quick thankfully, but Death. Loses = Memories of his Grandparents ; Reset to what he was like at the end of Baldur’s Gate. Demonstrates a complete lack of plot-armor.

Second Swing
Spoiler for Hidden:
Spoiler for Servant Stats:
Class: Archer
Alignment: Lawful Good
True Name: ‘Archer’
Sex: Male

Parameters:
Strength: X
Endurance: X
Agility: X
Mana: E
Luck: C
Noble Phantasm: N/A

Class Abilities:[/u]
Independent Action: E
Materialization for 30 turns.

Personal Skills:[/u]
Impossible Knowledge: C+
Archer has knowledge from the depths of the Kaleidoscope and alternate realities. He is aware of things which he would otherwise unable to know. Due to his nature, Archer is also resistant to any effect which would expose him to the overwhelming amounts of information.

Divine Words: X
Archer possesses a form of the same kind of language that casters from the Age of the Gods used. This skill is similar to High Speed Divine Words, but is lesser, requiring more language to achieve the same effect. At this rank it is an absolute basic understanding of the language, likened to a toddler first learning how to speak.


Noble Phantasms:[/u]
N/A

F/SN
Summoned again,  and once more he’s injured by the summoning, though this time he has a few healing potions. More calmly, he explains the situation to Rin and what had happened last time. She’s initially suspicious, but when he insists that they check it out with Shirou to be sure, if he’s got Avalon within him, she’ll know for sure.

As Shirou does have Avalon within him, Rin gives her pathetic pseudo-Servant a break.

Cue summoning of Saber properly.

This time, Archer is able to use the loaned spellbook to actually lay down boundaries that are the equivalent of High Thaumaturgy. The spells themselves are out of his easy casting, but with the spellbook and some time he can manage it.

Rin tests ‘Archer’ repeatedly to be sure that A). He’s not screwing with her and B). He really doesn’t have anything else useful other than information. But at the same time, she’s not harsh, she’s too good natured.

Rin talks Saber and Shirou into going and saving Sakura. Roasting the Mataou mansion and Shinji (she is unaware that Zouken that can control her since ‘Archer’ isn’t able to recall this info).

Rin (once again) convinces Lancer to help her and Saber take on Caster (letting him operate under the assumption that Rin is Saber’s master?)

This works and Saber brings down Caster (avoiding Rule Breaker as Rin had been warned and thus, warned Saber).

Berserker attacks them after taking down Caster and Rin / Saber are forced to retreat.

Time passes, and Archer tries to get taught Thaumaturgy with Shirou, he has his small number of shit circuits activated… and literally catches on fire because of the inefficiencies. This permanently burns him and whenever he uses the circuits it feels like a line of fire pouring through the circuits he activates. On the timescale of the war he can’t learn shit other than theory.

Since Rin has been keeping Archer relatively close in case of Lancer attack, he’s at the Emiya household… when Lancer attacks while Saber and Shirou are out. Between his magic and basically running like a bitch, Archer avoids death, but still gets clocked hard by Lancer, his left arm being shattered and breaking several of his ribs despite his enchanted reinforced armor. Thankfully for him, Rider is able to drive Lancer off.

Still, he’s laid out for a while. Rin heads out with Sakura at one point, trying to make up to her little sister in her own way while Archer stays at the household, healing.

Cue Zouken making Sakura go crazy, killing Rin, and Archer not knowing what happened in the least until he’s dissipated. Archer doesn’t die, but Rin does and Archer’s absolute shit Independent Action only gives him long enough to realize what happened and feel Gaia crush him utterly, feeling like being a balloon that got squeezed so hard it popped.

Result: Archer’s Circuits are activated but effectively useless, Archer showing a surprising amount of creativity with his loaned spellbook, Rin being a badass, Archer describing the feeling of getting crushed by Gaia


---


Baldur's Gate (Faueron)
Archer is summoned once more, this time outside of combat and by the same protagonist as before.

While it’s still awkward, he’s much calmer this time around and helps the group get even farther. He lacks extensive knowledge of the first game. But since it’s the same people, he’s able to actually start making friends rather than having to start all over with people that he sort of knows but they suddenly don’t know him.

He actually starts to become competent between training with the more martially oriented members of the group as well as the more magically inclined. Between his own skills and the intelligence of the other wizards int eh group, he discovers that he can use his Circuits to increase the amount of power he can use in a spell, essentially increasing his Caster level, a pure cheat. He also develops absolutely rudimentary Reinforcement.

Archer has to adjust to the fact that their group is attacked… a lot. And they have to kill… a lot. While members of the party are sociopathic, the leader(s) aren’t and are actually Lawful Good in a true sense. But they still have to kill sentients far, far more than Archer is comfortable with.

Archer realizes he’s adjusting to being called Archer as if it were his name and it freaks him out a bit. One of the other party members ‘gives’ him their last name to make him feel better. It’s stupid, but he doesn’t care, he appreciates it.

Cultural differences / World-building?

The protagonist of the series discovers that he/she is a child of bhaal, the progeny of the (very evil) dead God of Murder… Archer catches some serious flak for not telling them about this and is (magically) banished in a fit of rage.

Results: Further skill increases, Archer gains a last name, the world seems golden… and then shit happens and Archer doesn’t know if he can return which horrifies him


---


Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
Once again he’s in the place of Revan, this time though he’s far, far more careful. He’s picking up on the fact that there’s a definite pattern. He quickly gets armor and shielding to not die. He goes along, basically following the plot line, freeing Bastilla and gathering allies on Taris.

It’s weird having the Force, but absurdly helpful. He can only use it when tapping into… something that he feels in him that he’s certain isn’t the Force.

While he gets along with most of the growing party rather well, sort of settling into a pseudo-leadership position out of necessity, he doesn’t get along with Bastilla, their resident Jedi. The two of them just grate on each others nerves. Which surprises Archer as he normally gets along rather well with anally retentive folks. (This is because Bastilla actively doesn’t like him because he’s ‘Revan’, and it builds from there, though Archer doesn’t pick up on this)

Archer gets far enough along that he’s trained as a Jedi, it works absurdly well as it’s re-teaching the body something it already knows and Archer only has to learn it mentally. Archer makes sure to learn how to build a lightsaber as well as shield-generators. He discovers that his Circuits function alright, but he can’t restore his Od at any appreciable speed and that the Force is something separate.

Unlike the other Jedi, Archer is insistent upon wearing armor under his robes and carrying an arsenal of grenades, temporary energy shields, and blasters. Screw what they think.

Though he shows aspects of Revan, he’s so determinedly light-side and lacks the same charisma Revan had that the Jedi Masters are willing to let it slide in their desperation. There are times where Archer feels like he knows people, where the Jedi Masters are suddenly very familiar to him that he’s never known… but Archer brushes this off as the body retaining memories.

They move along, heading to Kashyek, the home planet of the Wookies looking for maps to the Star Forge. Archer gets mauled by a highly Force-resistant dragon-thing, but doesn’t die due to his Circuits, but he loses his left eye. Archer gets along with Jolee Bindo amazingly well, the crotchety old guy makes him laugh and reminds him of someone… someone he can’t put a finger on… Someone later mentions that Jolee reminds them of a grandpa and it clicks… and Archer realizes that’s what he lost. He has a small panic attack that he shoves down. But still, it was unpleasant to realize that.

He gets a replacement cybernetic eye, in a bit of vanity, he chooses a purple one entirely because he thinks it looks neat. He also shells out enough cash to ensure that he has an advanced one that lets him see into the infrared and ultraviolet spectrums, though his brain can’t interpret the signals from the artificial eye yet.

Archer goes to Korriban, the Sith Academy, to find another Star Map. He actually works well with the whole ‘Student of the Sith’ thing, but he occasionally feels cruel and vicious, and it’s harder to contain the stronger the Dark Side is in an area… but he can control it.

Until he successfully pulls off a coup and kills both of the teachers at the Academy, draining them completely… and then he feels something surge up inside him, a massive dark presence overwhelming him and-… kicking him out. The fragmented mind of Revan surged back and took back over.

Result: Archer learns a lot about the Force, how to build some futuristic technology, gains some of said futuristic technology, but he’s also terrified by what he was turning into, not knowing if it was Revan or himself losing to the Dark Side, he also lost his left eye and had it replaced though it is still useless


---


Rosario + Vampire
Archer wakes up on a bus, confused as hell. He gets run into by a girl on a bike who introduces herself, sucks his blood, and then basically runs off.

He finds out he’s at Youkai Academy, a school for monsters that teaches said monsters how to integrate with human society. Apparently, his mind has replaced the original main characters, which really worries Archer as he’s afraid he killed someone that definitely didn’t deserve it. He also has his eyes, which is very weird as the rest of him is Tsukune.

Archer remembers the story well enough to know that if he doesn’t act, several girls are going to be molested at least, likely raped, others killed. He can’t, just… can’t let that happen. It goes against everything he is. He quickly becomes friends with Moka, the vampire that hit him, and searches for another of the girls that would be part of the harem to become friends with her and try and keep her from falling for the guy that would molest her. He also tries to find the young witch before she gets herself killed.

He’s successful, though he gets embroiled in some minor combat and wounded without his normal equipment or the conditioning he’d been working on. Even with functioning magic and the Force, without his equipment or conditioning he’s not as much of a match for superhuman monsters as he’d like.

He gets along with the girls rather well, though there’s no real romantic interest on his side or even most of the girls. The young witch and the succubus are exceptions, though for varying reasons. While he’s flattered and finds the succubus attractive, it’s really awkward for him considering he’s nearly a decade older than them mentally.

And then he gets his neck broke by a monster that gets a lucky shot in and as he fades mentally, Archer curses internally that it had happened. He’d gotten cocky.

Results: Loses = ??? Nothing in particular is gained here, but any arrogance Archer had built up beforehand at being competent is destroyed here, he’s wounded repeatedly, and it shows a more protective side of him


Third Swing
Spoiler for Hidden:
Spoiler for Servant Stats:
Class: Archer
Alignment: Lawful Good
True Name: ‘Archer’
Sex: Male

Parameters:
Strength: E
Endurance: E
Agility: E
Mana: D
Luck: C
Noble Phantasm: C

Class Abilities:[/u]
Independent Action: E
Materialization for 30 turns.

Personal Skills:[/u]
Impossible Knowledge: C+
Archer has knowledge from the depths of the Kaleidoscope and alternate realities. He is aware of things which he would otherwise unable to know. Due to his nature, Archer is also resistant to any effect which would expose him to the overwhelming amounts of information.

Divine Words: E
Archer possesses a form of the same kind of language that casters from the Age of the Gods used. This skill is similar to High Speed Divine Words, but is lesser, requiring more language to achieve the same effect. At this rank it is a basic understanding of the language, much like someone in elementary school. Even so, it allows the user to cast spells beyond their prana capacity.

Clairvoyance: D
The user can see into infrared and ultraviolet with his left eye.

Thaumaturgy: E
Archer has a basic understanding of modern magecraft, and is able to perform Reinforcement and Structural Analysis.

The Force: C-
Archer may tap into the web of the life force around him without converting it into mana or prana. As there is not as much of a connection between all life as the reality in which he gained this skill, it is ranked down and provides the Instinct and Telekinesis skills at only E rank.


Noble Phantasms:[/u]
Lightsaber: A-Rank Anti-Personnel
Whether from a far flung past or a far off potential future, this weapon is one for a more refined age. When inactive, it is merely an 8-inch long metal cylinder, but when activated a beam of intense light extends one meter from it. This beam is a monomolecular, superheated plasma chainsaw capable of cutting through nearly anything. A weapon built by Archer, for Archer, it is greatest in his hands. While he wields the weapon, he increases the Instinct granted by his Force skill by one rank.

Energy Shields: E+++-Rank Defense
Archer possesses temporary energy shields which he may activate, creating a barrier of solidified plasma in the air between him and an attack. Attacks below a certain threshold do nothing, but any attack above that threshold pierces the shield, causing it to dissipate, though the attack’s damage is reduced by one rank. These shields may only be used five times each before their internal battery runs out, though they may be layered. This potential layering is the cause of the +’s on the ranks. Archer possesses three of these shields.

F/SN
Archer is summoned with his armor and equipment from Star Wars, but also his spellbook. Still breaks a leg upon summoning though.

He still sucks mounds of ass as a Servant, and comes across miles more as a Caster than an Archer, but Rin has a hard time believing he’s not a Servant. Just a shit one.

Cue her dragging him into fights because of the argument and her temper getting the better of her?

He has a run-in with Lancer at the school, with a combination of his Force-granted instinct, the variable length of his Lightsaber, his blasters, and magically pushing himself to his limits, he barely avoids getting killed in the first exchange (and has an unpleasant surprise that Noble Phantasms can break through his lightsaber, de-activating it). However, the appearance of Shirou distracts the Hound and sends him off. Cue the classic introduction to the War for Shirou. Archer is damn insistent though that they take Shirou home and protect him after repairing his heart.

Cue summoning of Saber.

When they go to register Saber, Berserker appears. Archer is actually able to take two lives, one with an overcharged grenade and the other with his lightsaber, causing Illya to pull back when Archer starts to pull out another weapon.

Cue Rin yelling at him about saying he couldn’t fight and Archer snapping back that he’s out of tricks! He doesn’t have anything else that can kill Berserker and has used up all of his shields against Lancer, his lightsaber is broken, he’s badly hurt from his fight with Lancer, and he’s out of magic. So no, no he can’t fight.

The group holes up at Shirou’s place for a while as Archer heals up. He practices his magic some, though Rin convinces Shirou and Saber to help her rescue Sakura.

They return with Sakura and Rider, which is pretty cool! Though Archer is worried. His arm is finally healed, but he has to hold it against his side or it aches. With Rin’s help, Archer figures out how to use his Circuits and Reinforcement to recharge his equipment, though he can, and does, repair his lightsaber on his own. Archer makes sure to get a hold of notes on magic in the Nasuverse as well as greater knowledge of the theory behind Thaumaturgy. He tries to reconcile that with the magical theory he’s learned from his Baldur’s Gate party.

Shirou gets kidnapped by Illya, between Sakura-powered Rider, a properly supplied Saber, and Archer supporting them, they break Shirou out. They have a confrontation with Berserker and Archer can’t get back fast enough, he nearly gets cut in two by Berserker, though his shields save him from being bisected. , though by overcharging his Blaster Rifle he takes another of Berserkers lives. Bellephron takes two. And cue Excalibur.

Archer dies from his wounds?

?? (Jesus christ, thought: If Saber could be talked into it, letting Archer enchant her armor, equipment, and her, what happens to the war then when she’s summoned properly in the first place?)

Results: Death, definitely death.


---


Baldur's Gate (Faueron)
Archer is summoned in the middle of a forest away from everyone else by the protagonist… who asks him more calmly why he hadn’t told him/her. And he tells her him/her that it wouldn’t have helped and it would have hurt him/her… but also because he was scared and didn’t know what to do.

“I am not happy with you.”

“I know, and I’m sorry.”

The young demigod sighed, “Are there any other major revelations I need to know about?”

“Well… Imoen’s a Bhaalspawn as well.”

“… what.”

“Yeah, that one you wouldn’t have found out for probably a year and at a bad time at that.”

A groan, “Any other wonderful surprises from the future?”

“… if this goes the way the games did, you’ll have a chance to ascend to godhood after beating up the strongest of your siblings? Also, your divine power has the potential to take you over in certain circumstances which may or may not come to pass. That’s… really about it.”

It was only after a slow, calming breath that they spoke again, “Alright, you’re not forgiven yet, but I’m willing to let you travel with us again.”

I smiled, “That’s all I can ask for. How long has it been anyways?”

“A month.”

“… well fuck.”

Cue assassins.

No, seriously, that’s a legit plot point, the main villain sends assassins after the protagonist occasionally.

Viconia, the Drow (dark elf) party member flirts with Archer as she does with any competent man… and Archer rolls with it, embarrassed and flattered as hell but no way he’s going to not at least give it a shot. Nothing comes of it at the time, but it’s a delightful change of pace for Archer.

It takes a while longer before Archer is forgiven by the protagonist, though the others do a bit more easily. They progress further through the game, pausing to gather resources. Archer shows a trick when he figures out how to use Reinforcement to create gemstones from raw materials… and suddenly money problems are non-existent.

With a much expanded spellbook and equipment, the group heads until they reach the final boss… a demigod that if it weren’t for the limitations of the game mechanics would probably be Servant-tier. So… yeah. That’s not a fun fight. Especially since said demigod has backup.

They win, barely, and the demigod Saerevok begins to dissolve into golden motes of light as all Bhaalspawn do upon death and Archer expected…. But instead of floating off into the universe and off to hell, the motes rush Archer and force themselves inside him in excruciating pain.

Well fuck.

Result: Archer has no clue! He’s gotten stronger and more competent, there’s trouble in the only group of friends he truly has, and while they solve it, at the end as the reach the final conflict of the game… he suddenly has what happen to him? (In truth, his fragmented soul desperately grabbed on to the strong one nearby before it guttered out and used it to patch itself up)


---


Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic[/i]
Archer replaces Revan once again, but no one knows him. He still has his artificial left eye though… He occasionally lets this slip, but he’s able to pass it off as a concussion of sorts, and later, the Force. Without the equipment he’d started to get used to, Archer goes out of his way to get it again, this time making sure to pick up a Vibroblade as well to allow him to actually block when fighting Servants or other things.

Readers might note that he’s losing his southern accent.

Archer focuses hard on not letting himself fall to the Dark Side, using logic and his own good nature. It’s far more difficult than he’d like, especially with the nightmares and the… joy he feels at killing. Before it was a disgusting and revolting thing that he cringed from, something he hated doing even when necessary, but now a part of him sings when he takes a life, when one ends.

This time, Archer can feel the planet die as it is bombarded, it makes him cringe as they fly off, but a part of him rejoices and actually is empowered… which horrifies him.

Archer has nightmares of an ocean of blood, of a demon of spikes and teeth and claws rising from it and trying to drag him down into it. Archer begins to suspect that he somehow absorbed Saerevok’s Bhaalspawn spark… which simultaneously amazes, horrifies, and confuses him. He doesn’t know how that happened.

The group gets to Dantoine and trains with the Jedi masters. Thankfully, the Jedi Masters expect Archer to learn the Force quickly, and Archer is able to bluff himself through to more advanced classes as well as find time to study the technology, creating a new set of armor with a built in fusion generator and energy shields. He ghetto-rigs the thing to be able to run off of a normal, breathable atmosphere, but rather inefficiently.

The team/party he has gathered heads out, first to Kashyk, the home of the Wookies. This time when Archer meets the ‘dragon’, he tears it a new one, focusing his use of the Force inwards and relying on his experience (both in straight combat as well as fighting with marginal Force Instinct) to beat its ass. Archer makes sure to clean the kill and take a lot of materials from it for magical purposes, using magic subtly to preserve them.

At one point, he nearly kills a fool for a trivial reason, stopping himself at the last minute.

Next they head to Tatooine and Archer picks up HK-47, an amusing Assassin droid. Archer also builds himself two more lightsabers to hide in his sleeves, he adds blasters to the back of his gauntlets and various other tricks to his armor… and generally just overcompensates. Pretty much every other party member thinks this is excessive, though HK-47 approves. Archer just says he prefers to be prepared, but admits to himself that he’s just freaking terrified of having to fight Servants and doesn’t like putting himself at risk in the first place.

Problem is, he can’t just sit aside while other people are hurt. He has no shame or fear when standing up for others or trying to make them smile. It was never a big deal before, but he realizes that he’s the one in charge, and he’s the one who has to make the decisions.

He starts to grow closer to his party members, thinking he might be here long enough to really get to know them.

Taking a chance, he leads the group to Korriban, he takes the more lightside members with him to help keep himself centered. It’s still a struggle to keep himself… well… him and not Revan, but he manages despite the added difficulty of the surging blood of the god of murder. Archer is surprisingly capable in the Academy and picks up what it teaches very easily as well as the backstabbing politics. It kind of surprises him how good he is at that.

Archer takes out the headmasters through betrayal… and manages to keep control of himself! Though the surging power of the Dark Side makes it hard.

He starts to head out of the Sith Academy… only to find that one of his crew, one of his friends, had been killed in an attempt to ‘get back at the high and mighty new guy’, a young T’weilek named Mission.



Archer can’t help himself. He tears the offenders limbs off entirely before electrocuting him to death with Force Lightning… and then the rest of the Academy picks up on the fact that he killed the headmasters and gangs up on him and his team… and Archer is already too far gone. Revan surges up and tries to absorb Archer, but is once again shunted out.

Result: Archer has greatly improved his equipment and has gotten further training, but he’s struggling with a literal Dark Side that is suddenly shoved onto him. He starts to appreciate and befriend his companions, only for them to die horribly. Despite his comparatively immense power, Archer has been unable to do anything of note. This is more of a breaking of his spirit than of his body.


---


Rosario + Vampire
Archer wakes up… in a hospital bed…?

… wait, what?

His waking and looking around wakes the girls that were nearby to keep watch over him. They’re all happy he’s alright, which flatters him, but he’s confused. He was certain he was dead and admits as such to them, though he doesn’t say why he’s sure… that he’s died before and he knows the feeling.

It turns out that Moka had given him an injection of her blood which had literally saved him from the brink of death.

Well what the fuck.

Archer’s not complaining mind you, but still, very confused.

Still, he returns to school with the others. More battles ensue, two more getting (but not really requiring) injections of vampire blood to keep him going. At one point, one of the girls that he had become friends with specifically to try and keep her from falling for a teacher… falls for that teacher. Archer nearly panics and rushes off upon finding this out… and arrives in time to find the teacher attempting to molest her as he feared.

To say that Archer is furious would be an understatement.

Through a combination of burgeoning vampiric strength, the power of a demigod, and the Dark Side of the Force he quite literally rips the kraken limb from limb. There’s no strategy, no coherence, just snarls and rage at the one who dared hurt one of his own. He crushes the teacher’s torso at the last, ignoring his screams as he ends its life… and then turns to Mizore, the threatened girl and checks if she’s alright.

In his mind, there’s no switch, it’s natural. From nearly mindless fury to concern and soft words in an instant and it doesn’t even register.

This is not normal. If he’d been called on it, he might have realized it and addressed it, analyzed his thought processes and tried to fix himself… but these are not humans, these are monsters, and it is almost as natural a reaction to them as it is to him.

This also gets him a stalker in the girl he saved. Very awkward.

He comes into very direct conflict with the Disciplinary squad, which is one of the most powerful groups on campus, which brings Archer into direct conflict with a Four Tailed Kitsune. That fight does not go well for Archer, he injures his opponent, but then gets completely roasted.

Result: Archer giving in to his darker sides and gaining vampiric blood, it shows a contrast between monster society and human society, but also shows that Archer is picking up some of monster society as well. Loses = ???


---


Familiar of Zero
Another summoning… by another Tsundere… though this one is even shorter. Joys.

Archer is massively more competent than Saito, and between his armor, sword, guns, and unusual eyes, he’s rather interesting to the other students, though they still deride Louise for summoning him. He becomes the Gandálfr, and casts a spell on himself to allow him to speak the language, though subtly. He doesn’t know this series worth a damn, but he tries to teach his silly little master and help her grow as a person. He’s infinitely patient with her, though he has to hold in the snark.

He makes sure to warn her that she may need to summon him again.

He goes along, being himself, becoming friends with the staff as they’re far easier to get used to than the nobility.

When Guiche tries to push off his problems on a maid, Archer takes exemption to that. As he expected, when he wields a weapon, his power increases by a degree of magnitude. The noble doesn’t stand a chance and Archer can’t help but berate him on his lack of true honor. Archer doesn’t consider himself to have honor, but damnit, if you say you have it you should at least treat it properly. This is a guy who just cut brass golems in half. With a knife. Telling a noble off about honor and arrogance. He makes a little bit of an impression.

Louise takes him a bit more seriously after that; and Archer takes the chance to just talk with her, he talks a lot of philosophy, but also about what their ‘relationship’ is going to be. She is the Master and he the Servant, but she needs to give him appropriate respect due his station just as he must her.

Louise grumbles that he has a limp, visible scars, always holds his left arm close, and is relatively short… but he doesn’t look like a commoner at least. His outfit and armor are obviously the work of a master craftsman.

Archer settles in to his role as Louise’ Servant. He doesn’t mind being her manservant and rather enjoys working with the other staff… when he gets dragged off by Kirche’s familiar he mostly ignores her. She’s attractive, sure, but Archer’s seen better and he’s a fair bit older than she is. Also, he’s used to an equally developed succubus throwing herself at him (quite literally), so… whoop-dee-doo.
 
Louise insists on getting Archer a sword, and Archer picks up Derflinger, the anti-magic sentient blade. Kirche and Tabitha both get Archer something as well, a giant (ornamental) blade and a folding polearm.

Some more time passes, with Archer striving to keep himself in shape (or even improve his conditioning) as well as working with his magic as well as helping Louise improve hers as best he can. It’s difficult since he doesn’t really understand their system of magic, but he works on it. But one night, when he falls asleep, he fades from existence.

Results: Archer gains both a new ‘class’ as well as an Anti-magic blade, but also showcases another side of him, the ‘adult’ in contrast to children, acting something more like a second father or a big brother to Louise than a lover.

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Re: Adrift in the Kaleidoscope (Brainstorming / Summary / Criticism Thread)
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2014, 07:28:03 PM »
Hmm, OK, this looks generally reasonable. With the third swing, I'm assuming that Sakura doesn't get taken over by Zouken because Rin dies first....

One thing, though, in your sheet for the third swing I'm pretty sure the skill that he has isn't clairvoyance. Also, why would a servant's weapon break through a lightsaber?

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Re: Adrift in the Kaleidoscope (Brainstorming / Summary / Criticism Thread)
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2014, 09:13:16 PM »
Hmm, OK, this looks generally reasonable. With the third swing, I'm assuming that Sakura doesn't get taken over by Zouken because Rin dies first....
Yay! And yes.

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One thing, though, in your sheet for the third swing I'm pretty sure the skill that he has isn't clairvoyance. Also, why would a servant's weapon break through a lightsaber?
I'm pretty sure his ability to see into infrared and ultraviolet falls under the Clairvoyance skill, especially if Archer's ability to see things moving really fast does.

And MAGIC. No, literally, otherwise a lightsaber would be excessively broken if it didn't. Magic items being at least resistant to them is an absolute must. But we're talking about crystalized legends weilded by people dozens of times as strong as a normal person, so I think it's fair to say it would smash right through a thin line of protons, which in of itself would disrupt the beam and thus deactivate the lightsaber.

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Re: Adrift in the Kaleidoscope (Brainstorming / Summary / Criticism Thread)
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2014, 10:05:41 PM »
I'm pretty sure his ability to see into infrared and ultraviolet falls under the Clairvoyance skill, especially if Archer's ability to see things moving really fast does.

Hmm, possibly.

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And MAGIC. No, literally, otherwise a lightsaber would be excessively broken if it didn't. Magic items being at least resistant to them is an absolute must. But we're talking about crystalized legends weilded by people dozens of times as strong as a normal person, so I think it's fair to say it would smash right through a thin line of protons, which in of itself would disrupt the beam and thus deactivate the lightsaber.

Well, it makes sense that they should be able to block it, but not outright destroy it. Also, the lightsaber itself is magic, since it is a Noble Phantasm that the Grail recreated for the purpose of allowing him to fight.

And, I don't think lightsabers work like that, anyway. Hitting them really, really hard doesn't make them stop working....

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Re: Adrift in the Kaleidoscope (Brainstorming / Summary / Criticism Thread)
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2014, 01:22:12 AM »
I'm pretty sure his ability to see into infrared and ultraviolet falls under the Clairvoyance skill, especially if Archer's ability to see things moving really fast does.

Hmm, possibly.
I went with Clairvoyance rather than making something up.

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And MAGIC. No, literally, otherwise a lightsaber would be excessively broken if it didn't. Magic items being at least resistant to them is an absolute must. But we're talking about crystalized legends weilded by people dozens of times as strong as a normal person, so I think it's fair to say it would smash right through a thin line of protons, which in of itself would disrupt the beam and thus deactivate the lightsaber.
Well, it makes sense that they should be able to block it, but not outright destroy it. Also, the lightsaber itself is magic, since it is a Noble Phantasm that the Grail recreated for the purpose of allowing him to fight.
That's a good point, though that would mean that everything about him is magic, including his technological stuff which is... weird.

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And, I don't think lightsabers work like that, anyway. Hitting them really, really hard doesn't make them stop working....
Depends on the continuity and what you mean by 'hitting it really hard'. A lightsaber is a (nearly) monomolecular stream of protons going out to a certain distance before going back into the hilt, essentially a monomolecular plasma chainsaw. This would have to be done with a magnetic bottle of sorts (and is). The thing is, most things when they meet the lightsaber, are eaten away, they don't just hold up to it. Other lightsabers are meeting electromagnetic field to electromagnetic field rather than actually trying to cut one another. Something that disrupts that magnetic bottle (such as the charged cortosis metal) causes the lightsaber to short out. Not permanently, just for a moment. Operating under the assumption that Noble Phantasms are crystalized legends far beyond a single, nameless lightsaber's, they would be undamaged by it and could disrupt its magnetic bottle, thus deactivating it for just a moment.

That was the assumption at least, but hey, clashing lightsaber against Gae' Bolg would be pretty awesome.

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Re: Adrift in the Kaleidoscope (Brainstorming / Summary / Criticism Thread)
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2014, 03:56:05 AM »
I'm pretty sure his ability to see into infrared and ultraviolet falls under the Clairvoyance skill, especially if Archer's ability to see things moving really fast does.

Hmm, possibly.
I went with Clairvoyance rather than making something up.

Fair enough.

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And MAGIC. No, literally, otherwise a lightsaber would be excessively broken if it didn't. Magic items being at least resistant to them is an absolute must. But we're talking about crystalized legends weilded by people dozens of times as strong as a normal person, so I think it's fair to say it would smash right through a thin line of protons, which in of itself would disrupt the beam and thus deactivate the lightsaber.
Well, it makes sense that they should be able to block it, but not outright destroy it. Also, the lightsaber itself is magic, since it is a Noble Phantasm that the Grail recreated for the purpose of allowing him to fight.
That's a good point, though that would mean that everything about him is magic, including his technological stuff which is... weird.

That's how Servants work, though.

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Depends on the continuity and what you mean by 'hitting it really hard'. A lightsaber is a (nearly) monomolecular stream of protons going out to a certain distance before going back into the hilt, essentially a monomolecular plasma chainsaw. This would have to be done with a magnetic bottle of sorts (and is).

I'm not entirely sure you can apply real-life physics to lightsaber design. Certainly the Star Wars universe fails real physics hard in general (particularly in terms of energy consumption).

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The thing is, most things when they meet the lightsaber, are eaten away, they don't just hold up to it. Other lightsabers are meeting electromagnetic field to electromagnetic field rather than actually trying to cut one another. Something that disrupts that magnetic bottle (such as the charged cortosis metal) causes the lightsaber to short out. Not permanently, just for a moment.

It seems to me like, if it were so easy to disrupt a lightsaber, there would be more ways of doing it than just cortosis.

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Operating under the assumption that Noble Phantasms are crystalized legends far beyond a single, nameless lightsaber's, they would be undamaged by it and could disrupt its magnetic bottle, thus deactivating it for just a moment.

Well, for one thing, you've made it a rank A Noble Phantasm, which implies it is as strong as one of those weapons, if not stronger. But, also, in general you wouldn't expect one Noble Phantasm to just cut another one, even if it is a "stronger" weapon. Otherwise weaker Noble Phantasms would be essentially unusable.

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That was the assumption at least, but hey, clashing lightsaber against Gae' Bolg would be pretty awesome.

Yeah, definitely.

I can't see how it can be an A-rank Noble Phantasm if it is literally useless and far weaker than any other Noble Phantasm, though.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 03:56:47 AM by Cherry Lover »

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Re: Adrift in the Kaleidoscope (Brainstorming / Summary / Criticism Thread)
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2014, 10:42:32 PM »
Wtf, thought I'd replied earlier, sorry about that.

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And MAGIC. No, literally, otherwise a lightsaber would be excessively broken if it didn't. Magic items being at least resistant to them is an absolute must. But we're talking about crystalized legends weilded by people dozens of times as strong as a normal person, so I think it's fair to say it would smash right through a thin line of protons, which in of itself would disrupt the beam and thus deactivate the lightsaber.
Well, it makes sense that they should be able to block it, but not outright destroy it. Also, the lightsaber itself is magic, since it is a Noble Phantasm that the Grail recreated for the purpose of allowing him to fight.
That's a good point, though that would mean that everything about him is magic, including his technological stuff which is... weird.

That's how Servants work, though.
Booooooooooo.

More seriously, that's really strange for him, as he's a combination of magic and technology. Also, a living person being summoned somewhat strangely.

... wait, would that mean that effects like Lancer Zero's spear would go straight through his armor and shields?

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Depends on the continuity and what you mean by 'hitting it really hard'. A lightsaber is a (nearly) monomolecular stream of protons going out to a certain distance before going back into the hilt, essentially a monomolecular plasma chainsaw. This would have to be done with a magnetic bottle of sorts (and is).

I'm not entirely sure you can apply real-life physics to lightsaber design. Certainly the Star Wars universe fails real physics hard in general (particularly in terms of energy consumption).
All of that stuff is canon surprisingly, at least last I knew.

But yeah, they fail at physics plenty of times.

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The thing is, most things when they meet the lightsaber, are eaten away, they don't just hold up to it. Other lightsabers are meeting electromagnetic field to electromagnetic field rather than actually trying to cut one another. Something that disrupts that magnetic bottle (such as the charged cortosis metal) causes the lightsaber to short out. Not permanently, just for a moment.

It seems to me like, if it were so easy to disrupt a lightsaber, there would be more ways of doing it than just cortosis.
There are! But cortosis is the cheapest/most common, because apparently no one can think of electrically charging a weapon. The only way to resist a lightsaber is an equivalent electrical charge or absurdly high density. The latter doesn't disrupt it, but the former does as it breaks the electromagnetic bottle that makes the damn thing work.

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Operating under the assumption that Noble Phantasms are crystalized legends far beyond a single, nameless lightsaber's, they would be undamaged by it and could disrupt its magnetic bottle, thus deactivating it for just a moment.

Well, for one thing, you've made it a rank A Noble Phantasm, which implies it is as strong as one of those weapons, if not stronger. But, also, in general you wouldn't expect one Noble Phantasm to just cut another one, even if it is a "stronger" weapon. Otherwise weaker Noble Phantasms would be essentially unusable.

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That was the assumption at least, but hey, clashing lightsaber against Gae' Bolg would be pretty awesome.

Yeah, definitely.

I can't see how it can be an A-rank Noble Phantasm if it is literally useless and far weaker than any other Noble Phantasm, though.
Hm, alright then.

How about something like this? "The lightsaber, a sword which cuts anything physical, even Noble Phantasms. More powerful Phantasms taking longer and longer amounts of continuous 'cutting time' to wear its way through. Up to D-rank weapon phantasms or C-rank defensive phantasms may be cut instantly with little effort. A rank defensive phantasms or B rank weapon phantasms take a minutes worth of continuous effort to cut through. As the weapon has no mass, it is extremely difficult if not impossible to block with the weapon, though it possesses the unique property of being able to be turned on and off."

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Re: Adrift in the Kaleidoscope (Brainstorming / Summary / Criticism Thread)
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2014, 06:08:49 PM »
More seriously, that's really strange for him, as he's a combination of magic and technology. Also, a living person being summoned somewhat strangely.

Well, sure, but if he's able to count as a servant I don't see how he can really be non-magical.

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... wait, would that mean that effects like Lancer Zero's spear would go straight through his armor and shields?

I would assume it would in the same way as it did with Saber, yes. Her armour is not specifically magical, after all....

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]All of that stuff is canon surprisingly, at least last I knew.

But yeah, they fail at physics plenty of times.

Ah, OK, fair enough.

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There are! But cortosis is the cheapest/most common, because apparently no one can think of electrically charging a weapon. The only way to resist a lightsaber is an equivalent electrical charge or absurdly high density. The latter doesn't disrupt it, but the former does as it breaks the electromagnetic bottle that makes the damn thing work.

Ah, OK. I'm not that familiar with the technology of Star Wars, although I do have some idea.

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Hm, alright then.

How about something like this? "The lightsaber, a sword which cuts anything physical, even Noble Phantasms. More powerful Phantasms taking longer and longer amounts of continuous 'cutting time' to wear its way through. Up to D-rank weapon phantasms or C-rank defensive phantasms may be cut instantly with little effort. A rank defensive phantasms or B rank weapon phantasms take a minutes worth of continuous effort to cut through. As the weapon has no mass, it is extremely difficult if not impossible to block with the weapon, though it possesses the unique property of being able to be turned on and off."

That seems really quite strong, actually. Also, what do you mean "difficult if not impossible to block with the weapon"?

Also, wouldn't it be easier to cut through a weapon than a defense?

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Re: Adrift in the Kaleidoscope (Brainstorming / Summary / Criticism Thread)
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2014, 06:44:35 PM »
More seriously, that's really strange for him, as he's a combination of magic and technology. Also, a living person being summoned somewhat strangely.

Well, sure, but if he's able to count as a servant I don't see how he can really be non-magical.
True. Just seems really weird is all.

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... wait, would that mean that effects like Lancer Zero's spear would go straight through his armor and shields?

I would assume it would in the same way as it did with Saber, yes. Her armour is not specifically magical, after all....
Wasn't her armor made from her prana though?

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Hm, alright then.

How about something like this? "The lightsaber, a sword which cuts anything physical, even Noble Phantasms. More powerful Phantasms taking longer and longer amounts of continuous 'cutting time' to wear its way through. Up to D-rank weapon phantasms or C-rank defensive phantasms may be cut instantly with little effort. A rank defensive phantasms or B rank weapon phantasms take a minutes worth of continuous effort to cut through. As the weapon has no mass, it is extremely difficult if not impossible to block with the weapon, though it possesses the unique property of being able to be turned on and off."

That seems really quite strong, actually. Also, what do you mean "difficult if not impossible to block with the weapon"?

Also, wouldn't it be easier to cut through a weapon than a defense?
[/quote]There's no mass to block things with, parry? Sure. But not block. The only mass is the hilt. Sure you can cut an attacking weapon (of the appropriate 'shit'-tier), but depending on the angle the piece is still coming at you.

Also, 'stylistically' or 'traditionally, the only thing that blocks a lightsaber are other weapons like lightsabers, lightfoils, vibroblades or other weapons laced with cortosis, etc., the only 'defense' that stops it is Energy Shields, which are almost impossible to find on man-sized opponents.

That and Mandalorian Iron as well as a select few "OMFGBBQTHISSTOPSLIGHTSABERS"-kinda-sorta stuff, but that's a weird nebulous canon space there for the majority of them, or insanely unique things.

But generally, it's only weapons that stop it. First thought of what a lightsaber does to most items? Cuts right through! But first thought of lightsaber vs weapon and your brain gives a little leeway of "oh, he's blocking".

That's the logic behind it at least. I'm sort of iffy on it though.

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Re: Adrift in the Kaleidoscope (Brainstorming / Summary / Criticism Thread)
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2014, 06:29:07 PM »
Well, sure, but if he's able to count as a servant I don't see how he can really be non-magical.
True. Just seems really weird is all.
[/quote]

No weirder than for Saber, who is literally still alive.

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I would assume it would in the same way as it did with Saber, yes. Her armour is not specifically magical, after all....
Wasn't her armor made from her prana though?

Yes, but I'm pretty sure that's an artifact of her being a servant and not part of her legend. I certainly don't recall anything in King Arthur's legend about magical armour, and if it were literally magical it would be a Noble Phantasm since it is seriously unusual.

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There's no mass to block things with, parry? Sure. But not block. The only mass is the hilt. Sure you can cut an attacking weapon (of the appropriate 'shit'-tier), but depending on the angle the piece is still coming at you.

Isn't parrying just a weaker form of a block anyway?

And, well, a lack of mass doesn't mean it cannot block something, because massless items can still exert a force. In particular, what causes two objects to block each other in general is electromagnetic repulsion between atoms (without that things would just pass through each other without any problems), so there is no reason I can see why the same could not apply in principle to a lightsaber.

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Also, 'stylistically' or 'traditionally, the only thing that blocks a lightsaber are other weapons like lightsabers, lightfoils, vibroblades or other weapons laced with cortosis, etc., the only 'defense' that stops it is Energy Shields, which are almost impossible to find on man-sized opponents.

That and Mandalorian Iron as well as a select few "OMFGBBQTHISSTOPSLIGHTSABERS"-kinda-sorta stuff, but that's a weird nebulous canon space there for the majority of them, or insanely unique things.

But generally, it's only weapons that stop it. First thought of what a lightsaber does to most items? Cuts right through! But first thought of lightsaber vs weapon and your brain gives a little leeway of "oh, he's blocking".

That's the logic behind it at least. I'm sort of iffy on it though.

Well, it figures that a lightsaber should be difficult to block, yes, because it is a property usually associated with one. I'm not sure it's true that a lightsaber is blocked more easily by weapons than other defences, though (I recall one of the Star Wars games having enemies with Cortosis armour, for example), it's just easier to depict that.

Anyway, how is the story going? Got any further yet?

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Re: Adrift in the Kaleidoscope (Brainstorming / Summary / Criticism Thread)
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2014, 02:29:23 PM »
No weirder than for Saber, who is literally still alive.
Touche'.

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I would assume it would in the same way as it did with Saber, yes. Her armour is not specifically magical, after all....
Wasn't her armor made from her prana though?

Yes, but I'm pretty sure that's an artifact of her being a servant and not part of her legend. I certainly don't recall anything in King Arthur's legend about magical armour, and if it were literally magical it would be a Noble Phantasm since it is seriously unusual.
The thing is, if that's the case, then why didn't his spear cut through invisible air? Or hell, Excalibur?

Oh. Duh. Phantasm vs Phantasm.

Still. very wtf-ery if his shields have to be made out of prana.

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There's no mass to block things with, parry? Sure. But not block. The only mass is the hilt. Sure you can cut an attacking weapon (of the appropriate 'shit'-tier), but depending on the angle the piece is still coming at you.

Isn't parrying just a weaker form of a block anyway?

And, well, a lack of mass doesn't mean it cannot block something, because massless items can still exert a force. In particular, what causes two objects to block each other in general is electromagnetic repulsion between atoms (without that things would just pass through each other without any problems), so there is no reason I can see why the same could not apply in principle to a lightsaber.
Parrying in this usage is deflecting a blow by changing its trajectory. Blocking in this context is canceling the force of a blow with the force of your own.

A lightsaber doesn't have any mass or inertia to cancel the inertia of the incoming weapon. While the lightsaber interacts with the matter of the weapon, it doesn't have enough force behind it to actually stop the opposing weapon. Sure, you can apply as much pressure as you can put on the fulcrum of the hilt, but it'll snap after a comparatively small amount of force.

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Well, it figures that a lightsaber should be difficult to block, yes, because it is a property usually associated with one. I'm not sure it's true that a lightsaber is blocked more easily by weapons than other defences, though (I recall one of the Star Wars games having enemies with Cortosis armour, for example), it's just easier to depict that.
Fair 'nuff.

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Anyway, how is the story going? Got any further yet?
Yes, someone suggested a few new things that I liked and I'm reworking the story some. Not gonna be a lot of updates though for a bit since I work all day every day for the next week and a half at least.

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Re: Adrift in the Kaleidoscope (Brainstorming / Summary / Criticism Thread)
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2014, 01:23:11 AM »
The thing is, if that's the case, then why didn't his spear cut through invisible air? Or hell, Excalibur?

Oh. Duh. Phantasm vs Phantasm.

Yeah, Noble Phantasms are immune, for some reason.

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Still. very wtf-ery if his shields have to be made out of prana.

Why? His entire body is made out of prana....

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Parrying in this usage is deflecting a blow by changing its trajectory. Blocking in this context is canceling the force of a blow with the force of your own.

It's the same thing in concept, just a weaker form of it. To deflect something you have to apply a force to it, that's basic physics.

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A lightsaber doesn't have any mass or inertia to cancel the inertia of the incoming weapon. While the lightsaber interacts with the matter of the weapon, it doesn't have enough force behind it to actually stop the opposing weapon. Sure, you can apply as much pressure as you can put on the fulcrum of the hilt, but it'll snap after a comparatively small amount of force.

Well, as I said, electric and magnetic fields can still apply force. But, yes, conservation of momentum does imply that, when you block a sword, the momentum of that sword strike has to go somewhere, and the only place it can go is through the hilt and into the person holding the weapon.

However, I don't think you're right about the hilt snapping easily. If you watch lightsaber fights, there are phases where the two lightsabers are interlocked and the fighters seem to be putting as much force as they can into pushing back their opponent. The amount of force going through the hilt in a situation like that is not really any less than the amount that would go through the hilt when blocking a sword.

Plus, I can't imagine that a lightsaber hilt is weaker than an ordinary sword's hilt, given the relative technology levels, and a sword's hilt handles the force just fine.

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]Yes, someone suggested a few new things that I liked and I'm reworking the story some. Not gonna be a lot of updates though for a bit since I work all day every day for the next week and a half at least.

Hmm, I see.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 01:25:17 AM by Cherry Lover »