Author Topic: The Battle of Giants: ORT, Primate Murder and fully incarnated Angra Mainju?  (Read 5107 times)

Ambiguous_Ayakashi

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Angra Mainyu is not only the weak being in the Grail, it is the amassed mass of prana and collective hatred of humanity thrown unto the monster. If AM is able to materialize, it will not be something similar to avenger at all, rather, having the Greater Grail as a vessel and such massive amounts of prana in reserve, it would pose an extreme threat.

The Materialized Angra Mainyu is pretty much a 'demon'. It is a materialized curse, and one of the most powerful ones ever, since it carries all of the world's evil. It will not only run on prana, but on the curse/negative emotions that it is supposed to represent, and seeing that it is a being on the scale of the world, that danger is massive.

Primate Murder has been stated to be Dead Apostle Ancestor N.1, but you have to recall that rankings isn't entirely descriptive of power. While there is a certain correlation, the ranking of the Dead Apostle Ancestors is based on their threat towards Humanity/the Church. Since Primate Murder is a monster created by Gaia to wipe out humans, and has absolute power over them, it makes a lot of sense that it is at spot N.1, but that doesn't mean that it is the most powerful of the Dead Apostle Ancestors. That rank should rather belong to ORT, theoretically.

Remember that ORT is the strongest one from Mercury, and is reputably one of the strongest Aristoteles when it comes to Attacking-levels. In comparison, Primate Murder does not qualify as Type-Gaia (we have Archetype Gaia in the Melty Blood Series), and its rule does not extend over beings alien from humanity/from being primates.

Thus, ORT is certainly superior to Primate Murder. If the two clashed, all the chances are towards Type-Mercury's side.

As for Angra Mainyu versus Primate Murder, it is possible that things could go either way... but as ORT itself is a being alien of any 'human' concept, I do not think that corruption will do much against it.

In the end:

ORT is supreme.

Cherry Lover

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No, it is connection with Greater Holy Grail that makes it anti-Servant.

Nope, it's Sakura's Shadow magic. It specifically has anti-spirit properties. The connection to the Grail improves the effect on humans.

The Man With All The Cute Boats

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nothing can beat dogs

Least of all cats, which Ort is one of(Lazes around all day(for thousands of years) and slaps people who try to interrupt the lazing)

Therefore Primate Murder stronk
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 01:45:52 AM by NamesAreHardToComeUpWith »

Ambiguous_Ayakashi

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Such loyalty.
Wow.

Very doge.
You go girl.

Kat

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Nope, it's Sakura's Shadow magic. It specifically has anti-spirit properties. The connection to the Grail improves the effect on humans.

1. I guess anyway without the Grail connection shouldn't be able to touch Servants. They are superior to modern Magi in general.

2. You people underestimate how cats can be ferocious when it comes to bullying dogs. My cat is lazing around all the day, but that doesn't stop her from mauling my dog.

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In comparison, Primate Murder does not qualify as Type-Gaia

Canonically, PM is superior to Crimson Moon. Your argument that ORT is clearly superior to PM holds water when we get confirmation about the difference in power between CM and ORT. I don't remember we got such confirmation from Nasu
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 10:20:23 AM by MysteriousHeroineX, Reason: extra info »

Ambiguous_Ayakashi

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In comparison, Primate Murder does not qualify as Type-Gaia

Canonically, PM is superior to Crimson Moon. Your argument that ORT is clearly superior to PM holds water when we get confirmation about the difference in power between CM and ORT. I don't remember we got such confirmation from Nasu

It's a statement from this Q&A:

Quote
Q: Who would be stronger if Servants fought the 27 Ancestors? Servant's also have superhuman battle ability, but the 27 Ancestors are also superhuman monsters.... I got the impression that ORT, Primate Murder, Altrouge Brunestud, and so on were obviously stronger than Servants.

A: All I can is they're both powerful.... They're both beings that live in mystery, so the only thing that can be said is that it all depends on the situation the moment it comes done to ""having the means of killing the other guy somehow". Among those, Earth rules won't even apply to ORT in the first place and Primate Murder has the super advantage against primates so they're in a league of their own, I suppose. Speaking of which, for one Primate Murder, seven Guardians would be the appropriate amount.

Basically, Primate Murder as the absolute authority over anything that is 'HUMAN', meaning that it can pretty much destroy most Servants and whatever human that thinks they're too cool for the doge.

But read on further, and see that ORT doesn't even follow Earth's rules, and we all know that ORT isn't Human.

Also, it wasn't said that Primate Murder is superior to Crimson Moon, rather it was said that:

Quote
It is currently under Altrouge Brunestud's control, and though it is not related to vampires, it counted among the Ancestors due to it having copied its master and developed a taste for drinking human blood. With this by her side, Altrouge is said to be a monster superior to even Crimson Moon.


"With this by her side" means Altrouge combined with Primate Murder, and who knows if the two other Guards of hers aren't included in that statement. I'm pretty sure that anyone would have problems when facing four of the most overpowered Dead Apostle Ancestors to exist.

So no, there is no concrete evidence that Primate Murder is stronger that Crimson Moon by itself. Also, Type-Mercury has the strongest Offense of all Aristoteles, and that's nothing to scoff at.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 11:51:36 AM by Ambiguous_Ayakashi »

Cherry Lover

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1. I guess anyway without the Grail connection shouldn't be able to touch Servants. They are superior to modern Magi in general.

It would most likely depend on the servant. If they have Magic Resistance then perhaps not, but otherwise I see no reason why it couldn't work on them in principle at least. Sure, they could probably dodge, but if Rin can harm a servant with magic then I see no reason why Sakura could not.

Kat

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Cherry Lover, each of Rin's gems has one year of worth of her prana. Sakura's prana is spend most on supplying the Crest Worm so she cannot afford such measures. Rin without prep time cannot be a threat to Servants. I guess Sakura too.

Cherry Lover

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Yes, but in principle they can affect servants, and Sakura's magic is anti-spirit so she is better-placed to do so than Rin is. Without some extra source of prana I agree it is unlikely to be enough, but there is no intrinsic reason her shadows can't harm a servant.

Kat

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Yeah, Servants are spirits, but top tier, so it's hard to affect them. Rite of Baptism is also anti-spirit, yet it can affect True Assassin lethally after harming Zouken.

Lycodrake

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nothing can beat dogs

Least of all cats, which Ort is one of(Lazes around all day(for thousands of years) and slaps people who try to interrupt the lazing)

Therefore Primate Murder stronk
voting ORT-tan, then; because crystal cat-spider girl. :V
=P
Spoiler for Best -monogatari:

Kat

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ORT-tan is Kohai to Gaia's Senpai.

raininmoon

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In comparison, Primate Murder does not qualify as Type-Gaia

Canonically, PM is superior to Crimson Moon. Your argument that ORT is clearly superior to PM holds water when we get confirmation about the difference in power between CM and ORT. I don't remember we got such confirmation from Nasu

It's a statement from this Q&A:

Quote
Q: Who would be stronger if Servants fought the 27 Ancestors? Servant's also have superhuman battle ability, but the 27 Ancestors are also superhuman monsters.... I got the impression that ORT, Primate Murder, Altrouge Brunestud, and so on were obviously stronger than Servants.

A: All I can is they're both powerful.... They're both beings that live in mystery, so the only thing that can be said is that it all depends on the situation the moment it comes done to ""having the means of killing the other guy somehow". Among those, Earth rules won't even apply to ORT in the first place and Primate Murder has the super advantage against primates so they're in a league of their own, I suppose. Speaking of which, for one Primate Murder, seven Guardians would be the appropriate amount.

Basically, Primate Murder as the absolute authority over anything that is 'HUMAN', meaning that it can pretty much destroy most Servants and whatever human that thinks they're too cool for the doge.

But read on further, and see that ORT doesn't even follow Earth's rules, and we all know that ORT isn't Human.

Also, it wasn't said that Primate Murder is superior to Crimson Moon, rather it was said that:

Quote
It is currently under Altrouge Brunestud's control, and though it is not related to vampires, it counted among the Ancestors due to it having copied its master and developed a taste for drinking human blood. With this by her side, Altrouge is said to be a monster superior to even Crimson Moon.


"With this by her side" means Altrouge combined with Primate Murder, and who knows if the two other Guards of hers aren't included in that statement. I'm pretty sure that anyone would have problems when facing four of the most overpowered Dead Apostle Ancestors to exist.

So no, there is no concrete evidence that Primate Murder is stronger that Crimson Moon by itself. Also, Type-Mercury has the strongest Offense of all Aristoteles, and that's nothing to scoff at.

No Ambiguous Ayakashi, from what I understand it is implied that " It is owned by Altrouge and 'ONLY LISTENS' to her, so she can be considered to surpass the power of Crimson Moon in a way"

Primate Murder's presence alone is enough for Altrouge to be considered powerful than Crimson Moon himself.

If we put it into perspective think of it this way: it's like owning the most powerful weapon in the world lets say for example a 'nuke'.. before I own that nuke powerful countries all over the world will never listen or view me as a threat.. but now that I 'own' that nuke not to mention it won't detonate unless that button was magically pressed by me

then now I am a threat to them, if not, then I can be even considered stronger.. in a way.

« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 08:36:29 AM by raininmoon »
“I have seen the dark universe yawning. Where the black planets roll without aim, where they roll in their horror unheeded, without knowledge, or lustre, or name.”

― Nemesis.