Author Topic: the OC corner  (Read 13015 times)

lantzblades

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2013, 11:05:13 PM »
I can point out a number of stories that use the multiple worlds theory to the same effect I have. Notably crisis on infinite earths and chrono cross. The consensus I received from other users on bl who backed up their claims with research was that Zelretch loses the second magic at some point. They attributed this to his transformation into a vampire. I trust those users therefore I have used their interpretation. The rest of what you have to say clearly shows you cannot read as the first post is quite clear that this is a polite, safe thread to present the characters.

Arch-Magos Winter

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2013, 11:08:24 PM »
I... what? Multiverse theory doesn't state that you moron. Multiverse means that there's one universe that he wins in. That's it. Not all of them, just ONE. And how the fuck is Zel no longer the second sorcerer. How. Just. How.

Not if his plan is to destroy Akasha or corrupt itself, which is outside any individual universe.

I don't know the exact detail of what Lantz is doing here, but I have had a similar plot idea before. Whether it's actually possible I'm not sure, Nasu is not overly clear on these things....

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...NOooooope. Noooope. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPE.

*Flips table*

LANTZ THIS IS THE FUCKING REASON WE CRY SUE - IT MAKES NO SENSE, IS CONTRIVED AS FUCK, MAKES YOUR OC THE CHOSEN ONE FOR NO FUCKING DECENTLY PLAUSIBLE REASON WHAT SO EVER, OVERPOWERS HIM INTO THE STRATOSPHERE, MAKES ME WANT TO BEAT HIS HEAD IN WITH A CROWBAR, AND SCREAM LIKE A MADMAN.

Magos, cut it out. We don't want you attacking Lantz in every thread you can find, and we certainly don't want you flipping out every time Satoshi is mentioned. If you can't keep calm and refrain from attacking Lantz, then don't bother commenting.
Mainly because it isn't possible. Angry Manjuice and CM working together is simply impossible, as they are totally incompatible entities. AM is just simply pure evil. There's no negotiating with it, there's no allying with it it just IS. It'd be like cutting a deal with a rock. It's just not possible.

Oh, no, I'm not attacking Lantz, I'm attacking his OC. You seem to not be able to tell the fucking difference. Do you want me to go over in more detail WHY this is wrong?

1st, you do not just simply 'Lose' the ability to do the Second Magic.

2. Medea would never fucking do anything for free or for that matter, I doubt Herc would even bother teaching him shit.

3. His origin spreading to other universes? That doesn't make sense and it doesn't work that way.

4. Why this dude in specific? Why the Gilgamesh shit? How am I supposed to find any of this remotely plausible in the context of the Nasuverse? Because I can't, no matter how hard I look I simply can't find a sense of plausibility.

5. This seems to be a self insert sue and character however I look at it. He's just... impossible. He rapes canon like the Nazi's did Eastern Europe. An OC should fit within canon. Satoshi doesn't.

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2013, 11:09:49 PM »
I can point out a number of stories that use the multiple worlds theory to the same effect I have. Notably crisis on infinite earths and chrono cross. The consensus I received from other users on bl who backed up their claims with research was that Zelretch loses the second magic at some point. They attributed this to his transformation into a vampire. I trust those users therefore I have used their interpretation. The rest of what you have to say clearly shows you cannot read as the first post is quite clear that this is a polite, safe thread to present the characters.
>Using Crisis on Infinite Earths as a source
...Lantz. Just. Why.

And no, Zel hasn't lost the second magic. Fucking links man or you're full of shit.

Alice

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2013, 11:14:32 PM »
What Cherry is trying to say is that it's not worth getting angry over. I suspect some of what you said in that big ol' paragraph of doom is just emphasized for dramatic effect, but like I've said elsewhere, it's not worth the upset. Trust me, that just leads to "fun" things like a depressed immune system (the usage of "depressed" is legit here, I swear!  :-X), and from recent personal experience, I can tell you it's not worth it in the long run. (If I sound like I'm talking down to you, that's not intentional, and I'm sorry.)

Unrelated to that though, I do find the whole "Toshi is a paradox" thing a bit much. Same with how you (lantz) state the multiverse theory works.

Name's OC looks really interesting. :3 I get mild Dresden vibes from that description maybe, but not to the point that he's Dresden-lite. :) ...Though then my brain's not the best anyway right now, so take that with a grain of salt. :P

Magos should expand on his sometime. :3 Tell us what his favorite brand of ice cream is or what brew he likes his coffee or something.

Mu's stuff is interesting.

...I should probably write something about Mille and Finn in here even though I pretty much made them up from scratch for the RP, huh? ^_^"
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 11:16:44 PM by Alice »

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2013, 11:19:58 PM »
Magos should expand on his sometime. :3 Tell us what his favorite brand of ice cream is or what brew he likes his coffee or something.
He actually avoids coffee (he dislikes the taste), along with alcohol. He's taking a fuckload of immunosuppresants because otherwise his body would flat out reject his new limbs. Think of them like Crests, except instead of being sorta slowly implanted and adapting to your body somewhat,  are instead always in the 'REJECTION' stage Rin mentions where the body wants to get rid of it.

He does have a sweet tooth actually. He eats a lot of supermarket brand stuff because he's a cheap bastard.

lantzblades

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2013, 11:21:13 PM »
No Arch. I was told this when did extensive research into everything in the Nasuverse. I am not obligated to provide you with anything  even if the links were still available to me in light of your behavior I refuse. The consensus I received was Zel loses the magic. The theory was vampirism was the cause.

I am giving examples of stories based on the same principle facts and theories, you're welcome to dislike my choice of example but I I'm not going to change it.

you are well within your right to not like him Alice but I did the research and in light of that I have the right to do as I wish.

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2013, 11:23:13 PM »
No Arch. I was told this when did extensive research into everything in the Nasuverse. I am not obligated to provide you with anything  even if the links were still available to me in light of your behavior I refuse. The consensus I received was Zel loses the magic. The theory was vampirism was the cause.

I am giving examples of stories based on the same principle facts and theories, you're welcome to dislike my choice of example but I I'm not going to change it.

you are well within your right to not like him Alice but I did the research and in light of that I have the right to do as I wish.
AKA you don't have sources and are pulling shit out of your ass. Thanks for confirming that Lantz.

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2013, 11:25:50 PM »
And no, Zel hasn't lost the second magic. Fucking links man or you're full of shit.

Lantz doesn't have to find citations for every element of his plot. As long as what he is saying is plausible then it is not up to him to prove it absolutely.

Mainly because it isn't possible. Angry Manjuice and CM working together is simply impossible, as they are totally incompatible entities. AM is just simply pure evil. There's no negotiating with it, there's no allying with it it just IS. It'd be like cutting a deal with a rock. It's just not possible.

Well, Sakura kind-of managed it....

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Oh, no, I'm not attacking Lantz, I'm attacking his OC. You seem to not be able to tell the fucking difference. Do you want me to go over in more detail WHY this is wrong?

Magos, you're attacking Lantz's writing ability. And, you called him a "moron", too. Further, none of that was in any way constructive. You were just shouting at him.

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1st, you do not just simply 'Lose' the ability to do the Second Magic.

Can you prove this?

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2. Medea would never fucking do anything for free or for that matter, I doubt Herc would even bother teaching him shit.

I think she would do things for free if she was dealing with a friend, and in any case Lantz never said it was necessarily free. Medea is somewhat selfish, but she's not completely lacking in any ability to be kind to people.

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3. His origin spreading to other universes? That doesn't make sense and it doesn't work that way.

Not sure what you mean. His soul was, not his origin.

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4. Why this dude in specific? Why the Gilgamesh shit? How am I supposed to find any of this remotely plausible in the context of the Nasuverse? Because I can't, no matter how hard I look I simply can't find a sense of plausibility.

Well, from the sounds of it is is somewhat contrived, but by design. As Lantz said, in a multiverse anything that can happen will happen. And, they set it up to be this way.

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5. This seems to be a self insert sue and character however I look at it. He's just... impossible. He rapes canon like the Nazi's did Eastern Europe. An OC should fit within canon. Satoshi doesn't.

Magos, please stop the "Sue" stuff, it's really not constructive and it is always going to annoy people.

What Cherry is trying to say is that it's not worth getting angry over. I suspect some of what you said in that big ol' paragraph of doom is just emphasized for dramatic effect, but like I've said elsewhere, it's not worth the upset. Trust me, that just leads to "fun" things like a depressed immune system (the usage of "depressed" is legit here, I swear!  :-X), and from recent personal experience, I can tell you it's not worth it in the long run. (If I sound like I'm talking down to you, that's not intentional, and I'm sorry.)

Yeah, that's roughly true but, also, I do think he should stop having a go at Lantz for the sake of having a go at Lantz. It's not nice and it puts people off posting things if they expect to get flamed for them. If he has something constructive to say then fine, and if he has an actual reason to argue it then fine, but just going after Lantz for the sake of going after Lantz helps no-one.

The second post is somewhat better, though (although you are still being somewhat rude). Less angry and you're actually explaining the issue. The most annoying thing for a writer is to get told "it's shit" without any explanation. I got that when I tried writing my story and it stopped me doing it for about three years....

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...I should probably write something about Mille and Finn in here even though I pretty much made them up from scratch for the RP, huh? ^_^"

Yeah, I need to add Kiyoshi and siblings at some point. And possibly some other OCs, too....

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2013, 11:29:34 PM »
And no, Zel hasn't lost the second magic. Fucking links man or you're full of shit.

Lantz doesn't have to find citations for every element of his plot. As long as what he is saying is plausible then it is not up to him to prove it absolutely.

Mainly because it isn't possible. Angry Manjuice and CM working together is simply impossible, as they are totally incompatible entities. AM is just simply pure evil. There's no negotiating with it, there's no allying with it it just IS. It'd be like cutting a deal with a rock. It's just not possible.

Well, Sakura kind-of managed it....

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Oh, no, I'm not attacking Lantz, I'm attacking his OC. You seem to not be able to tell the fucking difference. Do you want me to go over in more detail WHY this is wrong?

Magos, you're attacking Lantz's writing ability. And, you called him a "moron", too. Further, none of that was in any way constructive. You were just shouting at him.

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1st, you do not just simply 'Lose' the ability to do the Second Magic.

Can you prove this?

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2. Medea would never fucking do anything for free or for that matter, I doubt Herc would even bother teaching him shit.

I think she would do things for free if she was dealing with a friend, and in any case Lantz never said it was necessarily free. Medea is somewhat selfish, but she's not completely lacking in any ability to be kind to people.

Quote
3. His origin spreading to other universes? That doesn't make sense and it doesn't work that way.

Not sure what you mean. His soul was, not his origin.

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4. Why this dude in specific? Why the Gilgamesh shit? How am I supposed to find any of this remotely plausible in the context of the Nasuverse? Because I can't, no matter how hard I look I simply can't find a sense of plausibility.

Well, from the sounds of it is is somewhat contrived, but by design. As Lantz said, in a multiverse anything that can happen will happen. And, they set it up to be this way.

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5. This seems to be a self insert sue and character however I look at it. He's just... impossible. He rapes canon like the Nazi's did Eastern Europe. An OC should fit within canon. Satoshi doesn't.

Magos, please stop the "Sue" stuff, it's really not constructive and it is always going to annoy people.

What Cherry is trying to say is that it's not worth getting angry over. I suspect some of what you said in that big ol' paragraph of doom is just emphasized for dramatic effect, but like I've said elsewhere, it's not worth the upset. Trust me, that just leads to "fun" things like a depressed immune system (the usage of "depressed" is legit here, I swear!  :-X), and from recent personal experience, I can tell you it's not worth it in the long run. (If I sound like I'm talking down to you, that's not intentional, and I'm sorry.)

Yeah, that's roughly true but, also, I do think he should stop having a go at Lantz for the sake of having a go at Lantz. It's not nice and it puts people off posting things if they expect to get flamed for them. If he has something constructive to say then fine, and if he has an actual reason to argue it then fine, but just going after Lantz for the sake of going after Lantz helps no-one.

The second post is somewhat better, though (although you are still being somewhat rude). Less angry and you're actually explaining the issue. The most annoying thing for a writer is to get told "it's shit" without any explanation. I got that when I tried writing my story and it stopped me doing it for about three years....

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...I should probably write something about Mille and Finn in here even though I pretty much made them up from scratch for the RP, huh? ^_^"

Yeah, I need to add Kiyoshi and siblings at some point. And possibly some other OCs, too....

But it ISN'T Plausible. At all.

As for that, Sakura was getting it through a filter. And all AM did was let her darkest desires and intentions come to the fore. The Grail acted as a buffer.

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2013, 11:35:05 PM »
But it ISN'T Plausible. At all.

I dunno, I could easily see Nasu dumping something like that in there. Particularly since he's a Dead Apostle.

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As for that, Sakura was getting it through a filter.

Well, yeah, sure, but I would imagine Lantz is talking about the same thing.

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And all AM did was let her darkest desires and intentions come to the fore. The Grail acted as a buffer.

That's not entirely true. For example, at the end, when she rejects it, it actively attacks Shirou even though she doesn't want it to. It also does corrupt her thought processes so she thinks things she wouldn't usually think and considers things she wouldn't usually consider (cutting Shirou's arm off to prevent him fighting, for example), even if it does ultimately act based on her darker emotions.

lantzblades

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2013, 11:36:50 PM »
I am not obligated to provide a rude person with any information. I am not obligated to use your interpretation of any theory that possesses multiple interpretations. And finally I am not obligated to accept your view point or opinions. In short Arch, leave me alone  until you can act properly.

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2013, 11:56:19 PM »
I am not obligated to provide a rude person with any information. I am not obligated to use your interpretation of any theory that possesses multiple interpretations. And finally I am not obligated to accept your view point or opinions. In short Arch, leave me alone  until you can act properly.
While you're not obligated to use my interpretation you're also obligated to explain it's your interpretation, when asked where it comes from (And providing fucking LINKS) and to in general not act like a spoiled little brat about your story denying any criticism leveled at it for valid reasons. Another thing is that while you don't have to accept or even like my opinions, you need to acknowledge that my opinions are likely not just my own opinions and will probably be the opinions of a good segment of your audience. Instead of asking "Hey, why do they find something wrong with this." you seem to be going down the path of "I'm the author I'm always right." which is a horrible thing to do in fanfiction especially. Not only are you the one who usually acts improperly (Deleting threads for a bit of criticism and advice, whining about how we don't get it, refusing to even acknowledge that something might need to be improved, and a billion other things that I could go on and on about) you also never admit it when you are wrong, and you never FIX it either.

Lantz. Honestly, I don't hate you. I don't. I want to help you, I want to make you a better writer. But you simply don't acknowledge any valid feedback thrown at you, brushing it off. The way you present your ideas to us doesn't help either. You won't even admit "Yeah, I changed this to make the story work better." It's always your way or the highway and frankly, I'm fucking sick of that attitude. I'm sick of your 'don't like don't read' claims. I'm sick of your refusal to edit your shit. I'm sick in general of your antics and victim complex. Nobody is out to get you Lantz, but if you keep acting like you do I can't say there won't eventually be somebody.

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2013, 12:06:48 AM »
Little point, as the person trying to disprove his interpretation, one used for creating a piece of fanfiction, it'd be up to you to find sources stating that his interpretation is incorrect, instead of the other way around. Fanfiction at its core involves making something up, after all, whether it's a story or a whole bunch of stuff.

That being said, full stop on this. I get the feeling that if it's not reined in now, it'll devolve down into something very personal and unwanted by everyone.

So Magos's post? It's the last one on this particular subject. We're done, right here and right now. Everyone move on and talk about something else.

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2013, 12:09:10 AM »
While you're not obligated to use my interpretation you're also obligated to explain it's your interpretation, when asked where it comes from (And providing fucking LINKS)

Actually, no, he isn't. It is completely unreasonable to expect him to remember the source of every bit of information he has used to write his stories and to keep around a pile of links just in case someone asks him for one.

Unless you can provide actual evidence that his interpretation is wrong, you have no right to complain, really. So far you have both provided the same amount of evidence for your beliefs, that being absolutely none. Therefore, he is just as entitled to believe his as you are to believe yours. Only, it's his story and, therefore, his interpretation applies.

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and to in general not act like a spoiled little brat about your story denying any criticism leveled at it for valid reasons.

Magos, when you're rude to someone and start shouting abuse and calling their character a Mary Sue, you can't really be surprised that they don't particularly want to talk to you about it....

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Another thing is that while you don't have to accept or even like my opinions, you need to acknowledge that my opinions are likely not just my own opinions and will probably be the opinions of a good segment of your audience.

That's not necessarily true, though, although it may often be. You can easily have an interpretation that is completely different from everyone else's.

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Instead of asking "Hey, why do they find something wrong with this." you seem to be going down the path of "I'm the author I'm always right." which is a horrible thing to do in fanfiction especially. Not only are you the one who usually acts improperly (Deleting threads for a bit of criticism and advice, whining about how we don't get it, refusing to even acknowledge that something might need to be improved, and a billion other things that I could go on and on about) you also never admit it when you are wrong, and you never FIX it either.

I don't think that's entirely true. Asking why people find something wrong with it is not the same as being expected to agree with their interpretation. And, the Nasuverse does have quite a lot of room for interpretation, because Nasu is rarely clear on things.

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Lantz. Honestly, I don't hate you. I don't. I want to help you, I want to make you a better writer. But you simply don't acknowledge any valid feedback thrown at you, brushing it off. The way you present your ideas to us doesn't help either. You won't even admit "Yeah, I changed this to make the story work better." It's always your way or the highway and frankly, I'm fucking sick of that attitude. I'm sick of your 'don't like don't read' claims. I'm sick of your refusal to edit your shit. I'm sick in general of your antics and victim complex. Nobody is out to get you Lantz, but if you keep acting like you do I can't say there won't eventually be somebody.

Well, Lantz does acknowledge valid feedback, although I do agree he does not often change things based on it. I can't argue with you about the presentation, though, Lantz is quite poor at communicating what he really means, and comes off a lot worse than he should as a result.

However, whilst you might have some valid points, "don't like, don't read" is an entirely reasonable thing to say, ultimately. If you simply cannot stand something about his story that is fundamental to it, then he is clearly not going to change it for your benefit. That applies to any author. In that case, "don't like, don't read" is the only reasonable thing to say. No story can appeal to everyone, and an author should not be expected to fundamentally adjust the story they're trying to tell to appeal to the majority.

Little point, as the person trying to disprove his interpretation, one used for creating a piece of fanfiction, it'd be up to you to find sources stating that his interpretation is incorrect, instead of the other way around. Fanfiction at its core involves making something up, after all, whether it's a story or a whole bunch of stuff.

Yeah, agreed.

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That being said, full stop on this. I get the feeling that if it's not reined in now, it'll devolve down into something very personal and unwanted by everyone.

Yeah, it seems to be heading that way....

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So Magos's post? It's the last one on this particular subject. We're done, right here and right now. Everyone move on and talk about something else.

Well, I didn't notice your post and I'm not deleting mine after I wrote it but, yeah, I suggest we stop here....
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 12:11:34 AM by Cherry Lover »

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Re: the OC corner
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2013, 12:11:58 AM »
Cherry.  :-\

As for moving the subject to something else, since I'm actually a bit tuckered out, I'll actually take questions on my aforementioned OCs for now in place of an infodump. :) It's a bit more informal than a big infodump from me anyway, plus I get to see if I'm actually making them interesting enough to warrant asking about or not.

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