Author Topic: personal canon  (Read 6953 times)

Cherry Lover

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Re: personal canon
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2013, 11:27:10 PM »
Yeah, with the whole issue of having Zouken's worm in her heart...
Yeah, not to mention that Rin and Shirou don't even know she's in trouble, and she's not likely to tell them....

Quote
But I like to believe that the was saved in the big conflict created by Rin and Waver post-Fate and UBW. Better late than never, though sooner would be nicer.
Yeah, I would like to believe that, if not sooner. Certainly I think that conflict would result in either her freedom or her death, if it hasn't happened already, because I don't see Zouken ignoring it. But, whether it would be the first is not clear, and even if it is it's not clear that will be enough to give her a happy life, given how old she will be by then, how long she'll have been under Zouken's control (it's also likely that this will shorten her life somewhat) and the fact that Shirou is with Rin.

Plus, honestly, I see no advantages in the UBW route over HF, aside from Saber's survival in UBW Good (and even that doesn't compensate for Rider not getting a chance to live). Rider is dead, Ilya dies horribly and Shirou is with Rin rather than Sakura, resulting likely in emotional damage to Sakura that will be hard to fix.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 11:28:50 PM by Cherry Lover »

GabrieliosP

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Re: personal canon
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2013, 11:37:04 PM »
Brand-new headcanon:

Since Shirou's UBW is different than Archer's in the homonym route, HF's Shirou's UBW is a forest of Sakura Trees in full bloom, with petals falling 24/7 and a clear blue sky alongside the words. Because why not?

Cherry Lover

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Re: personal canon
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2013, 11:46:02 PM »
Lol, I've thought of that before.

It seems a bit literal though, honestly. My suspicion is that HF Shirou's UBW would be very similar in nature to UBW Shirou's, because they both have a generally positive outlook on life and are secure in their decisions. The chant he uses to bring it into existance will definitely be different, though....

lantzblades

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Re: personal canon
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2013, 12:29:21 AM »
Ilya lives in fate, hence why i like it aside from my previous reasons

Cherry Lover

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Re: personal canon
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2013, 12:34:13 AM »
Well, yeah, I can understand that, at least. Fate is probably the ending that has the potential to be happiest overall (Sakura being saved, Ilya living, potentially Shirou pairing up with Sakura or Rin or meeting Saber again), but it's also the ending that has the most potential to go horribly wrong (Sakura and Ilya dying, Rin going mad, Shirou ending up Archer-like).

lantzblades

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Re: personal canon
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2013, 01:39:44 AM »
Rin crazy? wut?

GabrieliosP

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Re: personal canon
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2013, 01:43:48 AM »
Rin cares a lot about Sakura. Hence why she sorta ignores the "rule" of not associating with her sister by going to the archery club to look at her, etc. If Sakura is not saved/ends up dying and Rin discovers it, she'll have one heck of a breadown along the lines of "If I'd knew it from the start, I could've saved her!".

lantzblades

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Re: personal canon
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2013, 01:44:57 AM »
I did a thing on that once, wouldn't say crazy, guilty yeah, depressed of course but not crazy...

GabrieliosP

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Re: personal canon
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2013, 01:46:27 AM »
Well, "mad" can also mean "a helluva angry", so there's still a possibility!

lantzblades

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Re: personal canon
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2013, 01:49:14 AM »
well yeah i guess you're right Gab

Cherry Lover

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Re: personal canon
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2013, 01:55:26 AM »
Rin cares a lot about Sakura. Hence why she sorta ignores the "rule" of not associating with her sister by going to the archery club to look at her, etc. If Sakura is not saved/ends up dying and Rin discovers it, she'll have one heck of a breadown along the lines of "If I'd knew it from the start, I could've saved her!".
Yeah, particularly if she doesn't have a relationship with Shirou, and even more so if Shirou turns into Archer as a result.

I did a thing on that once, wouldn't say crazy, guilty yeah, depressed of course but not crazy...
Well, it depends how you define "crazy". Certainly she wouldn't be happy, at least, and would be highly unlikely to ever gain any kind of happiness.

BlackestJudgment

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Re: personal canon
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2013, 06:16:46 AM »
Personal canon? This is kinda dicey because the different Type-MOON stories all have their own thematic messages and shit that should ideally be taken in from the work as a whole and I really feel that but if it comes down to stating preferences then I'm game as all get-on-out.


Kara no Kyoukai: N/A. Self-explanatory. Linear story is linear. It's a book, take it for what it is.


Tsukihime: Yumiduka Satsuki route (Near Side). The "Holy Balls, Guys, the Nutso Factor has Shot Through the Roof" Quotient went up to eleven and raised the bar like a reverse limbo contest. Roa and Nrvnqsr team up, the inexplicable anti supernatural defense cannon on top of Tohno Manor that howitzer'd Chaos Beasts through Misaki City, Reality Marble vs Reality Marble duking it out, and the distincltly bittersweet tinged true ending put it a cut above the rest of the stories told in Tsuki. You can tell that Nasu and Tak pulled out all the stops for this one and set a brick down on the acceleration for this one. It was unapologetically awesome bar none. 


Fate/stay night: Much as I loved me the Ayako route - what with her being deliciously girl-next-door, it being remarkably relate-able due to the "muggle gets dragged into a supernatural secret world and must cope or die trying", the hilarious and vaguely definitely conclusion to Ayako and Rin's bet, and the more frequent appearances of the Track Girls (loves me some Track Girls, too) - I just have to give it to the Illya route.

It had just the right blend of kickass, controversy, the collar-heating H-scenes (most notably that one. You know, the optional 4p) and questions. It really felt like a natural ending to Fate/stay night as a game, but not necessarily the be-all-end-all of what should happen to these characters. It really respected itself and the game as a whole, if that makes any sense. Again, as with the other example you could really pick up on that Mushroom gave this one his all.

Defender's, AKA Stray Servant, was...okay. Even though she kind of felt like dead weight in it some times. In order to fully appreciate her story you have to read Fate/Negative Zero in order to give it a true meaning of context. But let's not put the cart before the horse here (and give credit to Urobuchi for writing it in the first place), this is most soytently not a good thing when being part of what should be a work that should be able to be enjoyed standalone without having to cross-reference obscure lore that wasn't even released at the time and written by a completely different author. Bad Kinoko.

Caster's route I just wasn't emotionally invested in. Not because of some misguided notion that I was NTRing Kuzuki (who has the personality of a dump truck and coincidentally happens to hit like one), but because it just felt......well.........dunno...like it was trying too hard.
   

Fate/EXTRA: Don't give a shit either way. I'm cool with any of the Servants, though I'm still in the middle/first 25% of a Saber playthrough.


Mahoyoyoyodawg:
How am I supposed to have an opinion of a story that isn't even finished yet?
Alice end all the way homesizzle. :X


Fire Girl: Not even translated yet. Can't say.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 08:54:32 AM by BlackestJudgment »
<INSERT PRETTY AND WITTY AND GAY SIGNATURE OR ARTISTIC MERITOCITY HERE>

#irony #usinghashtagstomakestatesments

lantzblades

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Re: personal canon
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2013, 04:27:46 PM »
Personal canon? This is kinda dicey because the different Type-MOON stories all have their own thematic messages and shit that should ideally be taken in from the work as a whole and I really feel that but if it comes down to stating preferences then I'm game as all get-on-out.


Kara no Kyoukai: N/A. Self-explanatory. Linear story is linear. It's a book, take it for what it is.


Tsukihime: Yumiduka Satsuki route (Near Side). The "Holy Balls, Guys, the Nutso Factor has Shot Through the Roof" Quotient went up to eleven and raised the bar like a reverse limbo contest. Roa and Nrvnqsr team up, the inexplicable anti supernatural defense cannon on top of Tohno Manor that howitzer'd Chaos Beasts through Misaki City, Reality Marble vs Reality Marble duking it out, and the distincltly bittersweet tinged true ending put it a cut above the rest of the stories told in Tsuki. You can tell that Nasu and Tak pulled out all the stops for this one and set a brick down on the acceleration for this one. It was unapologetically awesome bar none. 


Fate/stay night: Much as I loved me the Ayako route - what with her being deliciously girl-next-door, it being remarkably relate-able due to the "muggle gets dragged into a supernatural secret world and must cope or die trying", the hilarious and vaguely definitely conclusion to Ayako and Rin's bet, and the more frequent appearances of the Track Girls (loves me some Track Girls, too) - I just have to give it to the Illya route.

It had just the right blend of kickass, controversy, the collar-heating H-scenes (most notably that one. You know, the optional 4p) and questions. It really felt like a natural ending to Fate/stay night as a game, but not necessarily the be-all-end-all of what should happen to these characters. It really respected itself and the game as a whole, if that makes any sense. Again, as with the other example you could really pick up on that Mushroom gave this one his all.

Defender's, AKA Stray Servant, was...okay. Even though she kind of felt like dead weight in it some times. In order to fully appreciate her story you have to read Fate/Negative Zero in order to give it a true meaning of context. But let's not put the cart before the horse here (and give credit to Urobuchi for writing it in the first place), this is most soytently not a good thing when being part of what should be a work that should be able to be enjoyed standalone without having to cross-reference obscure lore that wasn't even released at the time and written by a completely different author. Bad Kinoko.

Caster's route I just wasn't emotionally invested in. Not because of some misguided notion that I was NTRing Kuzuki (who has the personality of a dump truck and coincidentally happens to hit like one), but because it just felt......well.........dunno...like it was trying too hard.
   

Fate/EXTRA: Don't give a shit either way. I'm cool with any of the Servants, though I'm still in the middle/first 25% of a Saber playthrough.


Mahoyoyoyodawg:
How am I supposed to have an opinion of a story that isn't even finished yet?
Alice end all the way homesizzle. :X


Fire Girl: Not even translated yet. Can't say.

best.post. EVER!

Roarke

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Re: personal canon
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2013, 12:35:01 AM »
I'm agreeing with lantz, Black. Your post is definitely... interesting. I read it with Vince Offer's voice in my head.

I don't really see the point in asking anyone's canon, because it seems to be to be the same question as "what's your favorite route?" which seems to be the same question as "what's your favorite pairing?" Well, I'll answer anyway.

For KnK, like mentioned above, there are no "routes" to speak of, and there is only that story, which actually may possibly be my favorite Nasu work overall (certainly parts of Tsukihime and F/SN beat it, but not the whole of either game).

My canon routes, strangely, don't really line up with my favorite routes in the game. I actually sort of pick the Fate route and Arc's True End, despite my favorite F/SN route being UBW (I actually really do like Arc's route in Tsukihime, because the romance in that one seemed genuine to me, and not just like "oh, we need to have sex or you're going to die").
My reasoning is thus: Due to the nature of a Kinoko Nasu multi-route VN, there will always be one route that establishes the setting and introduces the major characters and themes. Then you have the middle routes that start to complicate the characterization of the characters and revealing backstory on others while still keeping more or less the same theme. Then you have the final route(s), which totally upsets everything that was established before, takes the remaining minor characters or introduces brand-spanking new ones, and uses them to twist the original thematic tone of the game towards something much darker and more depressing, upsetting the uplifting conclusions drawn in the previous two-thirds.
Then, Nasu will give that final route the happiest ending of them all. Because fuck consistency.
So, I can't take the final routes as canon, because they cannot stand alone at all. They require a read-through, and not just in summary, of the first and middle routes. Ditto for the middle routes; they stand up a little better than the end, but still benefit from the first route establishing the universe.
That's more or less why I think the first route of any given game is canonical.

Willy Vereb

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Re: personal canon
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2013, 03:53:06 PM »
Well hello there!

Since this forum is still low on traffic I beleive no one would mind a necro.

My "personal canon", huh?

Well, lemme see:

Fate/Stay Night:
Heavens Feel - True End

It generally has this "the book ends" kind of feeling.
All the secrets are unveiled.
Shirou develops into a whole person (... in a puppet body)
The secret heroine whose fate remained forgotten would finally earn her salvation
Many if not all the interpersonnal tensions are solved (Rin-Sakura, Shirou-Archer, Kiritsugu-Illya, Zouken's wish, Kotomine's dillemma)
Reall, the only exceptions are Saber and Shinji. And who cares about Shinji...
I'm also sure Saber partially made her ammends with her situation and it only needs a bit more stimmuli to drop her wish. Maybe in the next summoning.
Oh well, the moral of this story was that Shirou cannot save everyone. So I guess this is it.

Tsukihime:
Ciel Route- True End
This is purely for personal preference.
It was easily the best ending, IMO.
What? You expected more lines?
Well, sorry to disappoint.

I also didn't play with Fate/Extra so I can't answer.
And from what I know the "'routes" only differ somewhat in their epilogues.